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Yes every relationship has a good point and a bad point. There was a time when Pakistan (my neighbouring country) had the best of relations with US. Lasting alm

Yes every relationship has a good point and a bad point. There was a time when Pakistan (my neighbouring country) had the best of relations with US. Lasting almost 5 decades. Even allowed US to setup military base so US could fight it's War on Terror. Now they curse US every other day. It is not a question of whether you are more comfortable living under Russian control or US "partnership". Eventually, in the long run, relationships of this kind sour inevitably. Because there will always be divergence in interests. The moment that happens you will feel "stuck" with someone you don't want anymore but can't do anything about it. Colonization comes in various forms. Setting up military bases is one of them. This bonhomie is good as long as relationship between your country and US is good. What will you do if it turns sour in the future? No one can predict the future. Who would have predicted splitting of Germany? Who would have predicted collapse of Soviet Union? You talk of Europe as if it is one entity "sharing values" with USA. A quick look into European history and you'll see it was always engaged in Wars not just with the entire World but with each other. It's not even 80 years since Nazi Germany came attacking most European countries. Don't forget your history and think everything will be hunky dory going forward. This sort of myopic view is what causes one to become complacent and ultimately end up colonized. If Europe is so United in its values why was there even a Brexit in the first place? If Europe could not keep the Brits within its own fold you are thinking you can keep America permanently within the fold? US is not there to help you out. It's there only for its own interests. It just so happens that at this moment in time your interests align. That's all.

throwaway11204 3y ago
The US helped us found the state over 100 years ago and was a reliable ally for decades. Unfortunately, for a short while we though the Soviet Union is a natural ally for us, but actually it was them who subverted our elections and later occupied us. We were able to get away (again with the help of US) from their influence and asked the US to come back, which they eventually did and since then have been a reliable ally for decades. I don't know about the British, and I am not saying there is European unity. My country's partnership with the US is very natural since we share culture and way of life. There's no need to "keep the US within the fold", we simply think alike. You comparing it to an occupation is simply absolutely wrong. The partnership is of totally different nature. We know exactly what occupation looks like - we had the Nazi occupation, and later the Soviet occupation that ended in 1989 - I remember it myself. Both of these directly changed our governments and tried to germanize or russify us. The US never did anything even remotely similar to what they did. The US came with their military hardware and used it to protect us, never anything else.
prox 3y ago
This is why you should not look into current day narratives, they are almost always wrong. It’s good to learn from history, and I would say in Europe at least most people are very aware of the past, and many things are being done to safe guard and make sure we keep the ideals of democracy strong. In Europe but also globally there is a problem right now of far right incursions, hate, fear mongering and strongman politics. Noticeable here is that Brexit happened under a Tory (right wing) government with barely a slitter of a majority. That is to say, our own toxic nationalism and entrenchment in the past keeps us from moving forward. We need to build global alliances based on cooperative ideals (and there are many such platforms) and with idea of helping eachother out. Not to exclude real-politik where nations work only for their own interests, that is pretty much a given, but unions can work, if we keep them working properly.
The_Colonel 3y ago
> What will you do if it turns sour in the future? We can ask USA to leave and take their soldiers with them. And I have high confidence they will do just that.
- ElectricalUnion 3y ago
  > We can ask USA to leave and take their soldiers with them. That worked very well for Cuba and Guantanamo Bay since 1934.
- shri_krishna 3y ago
  > And I have high confidence they will do just that. Let us put your confidence to the litmus test: 1. What is the legal status of Puerto Rico? 2. Is it a State in USA or a Colony of USA? 3. Are Constitutional Rights defined in US Constitution applicable to residents of Puerto Rico? 4. Do they have voting representation in the US Congress? > We can ask USA to leave and take their soldiers with them. Good luck with that!
  - nocoiner 3y ago
    1. It’s an organized unincorporated territory of the United States. 2. It is neither a state nor a colony (it is an organized, unincorporated territory of the United States). 3. Citizens of Puerto Rico are American citizens, so yes. The existence of the insular cases doesn’t negate that - there are other categories of U.S. citizens who don’t receive the full protection of the constitution. 4. They do not. If and when Puerto Rico becomes a state, they will.
    - shri_krishna 3y ago
      1. > organized unincorporated territory Is basically a nice way of saying it is a Colony. Fact is that it is a Colony. "Unincorporated territory" is a BS term created out of thin air to save the US Government from obvious criticisms. [1] If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. In this case the duck is Colonization. 2. Read 1 above 3. Those "other categories of U.S. citizens" who don't receive the full protection of the Constitution have "opted" for it (for example: members of the military are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which imposes certain restrictions on their free speech, assembly, and association rights to maintain good order and discipline within the military - however, this is an "opt in" to have individual Rights restricted). They were not "born into it". Residents of Puerto Rico on the other hand are not given the full protection of the Constitution primarily based on where they are born. That is not equality by any means. 4. Exactly. And there was no choice given to Puerto Rico residents if they want to be part of the US or not. Since technically, Puerto Rico was colonized by Spain and then colonized by USA, it hasn't had a referendum asking if people want to remain with US or not. So currently, they are neither here nor there but hanging in between. Neither a "fully incorporated state" of USA, nor a completely free, independent State. Classic characteristic of a Colony. [1]: https://ccrjustice.org/home/blog/2021/10/20/colony-colony-colony-puerto-rico-and-courts#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico's%20colonial%20status%20dates,after%20the%20Spanish%2DAmerican%20War https://ccrjustice.org/home/blog/2021/10/20/colony-colony-co....

throwaway11204 3y ago

The US helped us found the state over 100 years ago and was a reliable ally for decades. Unfortunately, for a short while we though the Soviet Union is a natural ally for us, but actually it was them who subverted our elections and later occupied us. We were able to get away (again with the help of US) from their influence and asked the US to come back, which they eventually did and since then have been a reliable ally for decades. I don't know about the British, and I am not saying there is European unity. My country's partnership with the US is very natural since we share culture and way of life. There's no need to "keep the US within the fold", we simply think alike. You comparing it to an occupation is simply absolutely wrong. The partnership is of totally different nature. We know exactly what occupation looks like - we had the Nazi occupation, and later the Soviet occupation that ended in 1989 - I remember it myself. Both of these directly changed our governments and tried to germanize or russify us. The US never did anything even remotely similar to what they did. The US came with their military hardware and used it to protect us, never anything else.

prox 3y ago

This is why you should not look into current day narratives, they are almost always wrong. It’s good to learn from history, and I would say in Europe at least most people are very aware of the past, and many things are being done to safe guard and make sure we keep the ideals of democracy strong. In Europe but also globally there is a problem right now of far right incursions, hate, fear mongering and strongman politics. Noticeable here is that Brexit happened under a Tory (right wing) government with barely a slitter of a majority. That is to say, our own toxic nationalism and entrenchment in the past keeps us from moving forward. We need to build global alliances based on cooperative ideals (and there are many such platforms) and with idea of helping eachother out. Not to exclude real-politik where nations work only for their own interests, that is pretty much a given, but unions can work, if we keep them working properly.

The_Colonel 3y ago

> What will you do if it turns sour in the future? We can ask USA to leave and take their soldiers with them. And I have high confidence they will do just that.

ElectricalUnion 3y ago
> We can ask USA to leave and take their soldiers with them. That worked very well for Cuba and Guantanamo Bay since 1934.
shri_krishna 3y ago
> And I have high confidence they will do just that. Let us put your confidence to the litmus test: 1. What is the legal status of Puerto Rico? 2. Is it a State in USA or a Colony of USA? 3. Are Constitutional Rights defined in US Constitution applicable to residents of Puerto Rico? 4. Do they have voting representation in the US Congress? > We can ask USA to leave and take their soldiers with them. Good luck with that!
- nocoiner 3y ago
  1. It’s an organized unincorporated territory of the United States. 2. It is neither a state nor a colony (it is an organized, unincorporated territory of the United States). 3. Citizens of Puerto Rico are American citizens, so yes. The existence of the insular cases doesn’t negate that - there are other categories of U.S. citizens who don’t receive the full protection of the constitution. 4. They do not. If and when Puerto Rico becomes a state, they will.
  - shri_krishna 3y ago
    1. > organized unincorporated territory Is basically a nice way of saying it is a Colony. Fact is that it is a Colony. "Unincorporated territory" is a BS term created out of thin air to save the US Government from obvious criticisms. [1] If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. In this case the duck is Colonization. 2. Read 1 above 3. Those "other categories of U.S. citizens" who don't receive the full protection of the Constitution have "opted" for it (for example: members of the military are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which imposes certain restrictions on their free speech, assembly, and association rights to maintain good order and discipline within the military - however, this is an "opt in" to have individual Rights restricted). They were not "born into it". Residents of Puerto Rico on the other hand are not given the full protection of the Constitution primarily based on where they are born. That is not equality by any means. 4. Exactly. And there was no choice given to Puerto Rico residents if they want to be part of the US or not. Since technically, Puerto Rico was colonized by Spain and then colonized by USA, it hasn't had a referendum asking if people want to remain with US or not. So currently, they are neither here nor there but hanging in between. Neither a "fully incorporated state" of USA, nor a completely free, independent State. Classic characteristic of a Colony. [1]: https://ccrjustice.org/home/blog/2021/10/20/colony-colony-colony-puerto-rico-and-courts#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico's%20colonial%20status%20dates,after%20the%20Spanish%2DAmerican%20War https://ccrjustice.org/home/blog/2021/10/20/colony-colony-co....