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It is interesting to juxtapose the feelings of Indian classical musicians towards two Western instruments: the harmonium and the violin. The latter has been so

It is interesting to juxtapose the feelings of Indian classical musicians towards two Western instruments: the harmonium and the violin. The latter has been so enthusiastically embraced that it has long since displaced even the vīṇā in popularity. The article discusses this matter only briefly, but links to a much longer exposition[1]. In summary, though... Being a fretless, bowed, string instrument, the violin is exceptionally good at the gāyaki ('as sung') style and in bringing out the ornaments, or gamaka, that are so pervasive in Indian classical music. With the violin, there are some modifications to playing style and tuning compared to Western classical and baroque music: pizzicato is extremely rare, and col legno rarer still. The GDAE strings are tuned to x, x + 5, x', x' + 5 respectively, where x and x' are any note and that note an octave higher. Typically x = D♯, E, or F in violin solos, and x = the vocalist's/main artiste's choice of śruti when accompanying. It is for precisely this reason that the harmonium and similar keyed instruments like the piano are eschewed in Indian classical music (barring a handful of exceptions). With so much focus on melody and ornamentation instead of harmony, multiple simultaneous keypresses are incongruous in Indian classical music, and the piano is unable to do any trill, glissando, or equivalent gamaka that the violin, flute, or even the mandolin can. Electronic keyboards are somewhat less frowned upon, because the synthesiser can approximate gamakas. That said, even today, many conservative listeners will not accept anything but the violin, which has been part of Carnatic music for more than two centuries. [1]: https://maddy06.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-violin-in-carnatic-music.html https://maddy06.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-violin-in-carnatic-... An addendum: My comment has a slight Carnatic bias. The harmonium still exists in Indian classical music today, but it is significantly more popular in Hindustani music than in Carnatic music.

nullspace 3y ago
You add it in your addendum, but I must emphasize that you are extremely biased towards Carnatic. For context, I’m trained in Hindustani music and have given a number of performances and have family and friends who have done the same for Carnatic music. My experience is that Harmonium is very common as an accompanying/supporting instrument - probably precisely for the reasons you specified. Harmony is great, it doesn’t mimic to do the vocal variations - just support the singer doing it as well as possible. What I’ve actually seen is that use of Harmonium as an accompanying instrument is much more common across the spectrum (both north and south) than Violin for classical and semi-classical - though unlike Violin it’s almost never used solo. OTOH I’ve never seen violin being used in Hindustani.
- delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
  > You add it in your addendum, but I must emphasize that you are extremely biased towards Carnatic. Mea culpa. As a trained Carnatic vocalist and violinist, I let my biases through. However... > Harmony is great, it doesn’t mimic to do the vocal variations - just support the singer doing it as well as possible. But the harmonium in Hindustani doesn't have harmony. I know enough Hindustani music to understand that only melodies are played, and almost never harmonies. Especially when the artiste is performing alap. > use of Harmonium as an accompanying instrument is much more common across the spectrum (both north and south) Like I said, it's far, far more common in Hindustani than in Carnatic. If some South Indian concert uses it, it's usually for bhajans, or, like you said, 'semi-classical' or 'light music'. The violin is de jure and de facto the default accompanying instrument for Carnatic music. > I’ve never seen violin being used in Hindustani. Kala Ramnath, V G Jog, N Rajam, M S Gopalakrishnan (although he was much more famous in Carnatic circles). The violin is not as common as the sitar in Hindustani music, but it definitely exists, and is increasing in popularity... Also owing to the reasons I mentioned.
  - downsplat 3y ago
    As a long-time fan of Indian music, I'm so happy to see how the world is catching on to the depth and value of classical Indian musical traditions, and how Indians are making their voices heard worldwide. Just a 5 years ago I don't think you would have found a discussion between trained musicians in Hindustani and Carnatic on a tech-focused news aggregator. Rock on... or raag on, and thanks for the recommendations. M.S. Gopalkrishnan was certainly amazing.
  - nullspace 3y ago
    Ah this is fun! :) > I know enough Hindustani music to understand that only melodies are played, and almost never harmonies. Especially when the artiste is performing alap. I think is broadly true, but anecdotally speaking, myself and people I’ve trained under use harmony and love harmony for hardcore Hindustani classical. It’s a bit of a shame that more don’t use it, but I wouldn’t underestimate it either.
- tacomonstrous 3y ago
mistrial9 3y ago
from a folk-music, rag-tag spiritual wanderer point of view, the Harmonium is deeply loved for its basic qualities, availability of low-cost, hardy instruments, and portability for hiking and camping.
- dagmx 3y ago
  The harmonium is quite large. Are you really taking it hiking and camping? I could understand if you’re talking about the harmonica , but a harmonium seems odd for either context.
  - MisterTea 3y ago
    A friend found a Harmonium in the trash and we played around with it for a bit (it was shot, bellows ripped and wood case dried and cracked) I would not call it as portable as say an acoustic guitar, but the thing I had could be carried with ease on a backpack frame or even shoulder strap.
  - albert_e 3y ago
    I believe it was pretty common to see musicians carry it on a shoulder strap and use it as the only accompaniment to vocal performances. Street singers would entertain a crowd thus and earn some money. Found some examples of 'portable' harmoniums in use -- https://youtu.be/AAiELn2Intk https://youtu.be/AAiELn2Intk https://youtu.be/bzHsfU6aYHM https://youtu.be/bzHsfU6aYHM https://youtu.be/QjpVosGAB8k https://youtu.be/QjpVosGAB8k This last one is not a real live video but an old movie song (actor enacting a role, not really playing the harmonium himself, actual music is recorded in a studio with a few more accompaniments) ...but kind of depicts a common street scene in south Indian city of old days, with creative license https://youtu.be/wd1Aijoki50 https://youtu.be/wd1Aijoki50
    - dagmx 3y ago
      Yeah it’s definitely a walkable instrument but I’d be surprised if anyone actually treated it as a hikeable one. That’s quite a difference in burden.

nullspace 3y ago

You add it in your addendum, but I must emphasize that you are extremely biased towards Carnatic. For context, I’m trained in Hindustani music and have given a number of performances and have family and friends who have done the same for Carnatic music. My experience is that Harmonium is very common as an accompanying/supporting instrument - probably precisely for the reasons you specified. Harmony is great, it doesn’t mimic to do the vocal variations - just support the singer doing it as well as possible. What I’ve actually seen is that use of Harmonium as an accompanying instrument is much more common across the spectrum (both north and south) than Violin for classical and semi-classical - though unlike Violin it’s almost never used solo. OTOH I’ve never seen violin being used in Hindustani.

delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
> You add it in your addendum, but I must emphasize that you are extremely biased towards Carnatic. Mea culpa. As a trained Carnatic vocalist and violinist, I let my biases through. However... > Harmony is great, it doesn’t mimic to do the vocal variations - just support the singer doing it as well as possible. But the harmonium in Hindustani doesn't have harmony. I know enough Hindustani music to understand that only melodies are played, and almost never harmonies. Especially when the artiste is performing alap. > use of Harmonium as an accompanying instrument is much more common across the spectrum (both north and south) Like I said, it's far, far more common in Hindustani than in Carnatic. If some South Indian concert uses it, it's usually for bhajans, or, like you said, 'semi-classical' or 'light music'. The violin is de jure and de facto the default accompanying instrument for Carnatic music. > I’ve never seen violin being used in Hindustani. Kala Ramnath, V G Jog, N Rajam, M S Gopalakrishnan (although he was much more famous in Carnatic circles). The violin is not as common as the sitar in Hindustani music, but it definitely exists, and is increasing in popularity... Also owing to the reasons I mentioned.
- downsplat 3y ago
  As a long-time fan of Indian music, I'm so happy to see how the world is catching on to the depth and value of classical Indian musical traditions, and how Indians are making their voices heard worldwide. Just a 5 years ago I don't think you would have found a discussion between trained musicians in Hindustani and Carnatic on a tech-focused news aggregator. Rock on... or raag on, and thanks for the recommendations. M.S. Gopalkrishnan was certainly amazing.
- nullspace 3y ago
  Ah this is fun! :) > I know enough Hindustani music to understand that only melodies are played, and almost never harmonies. Especially when the artiste is performing alap. I think is broadly true, but anecdotally speaking, myself and people I’ve trained under use harmony and love harmony for hardcore Hindustani classical. It’s a bit of a shame that more don’t use it, but I wouldn’t underestimate it either.
tacomonstrous 3y ago

mistrial9 3y ago

from a folk-music, rag-tag spiritual wanderer point of view, the Harmonium is deeply loved for its basic qualities, availability of low-cost, hardy instruments, and portability for hiking and camping.

dagmx 3y ago
The harmonium is quite large. Are you really taking it hiking and camping? I could understand if you’re talking about the harmonica , but a harmonium seems odd for either context.
- MisterTea 3y ago
  A friend found a Harmonium in the trash and we played around with it for a bit (it was shot, bellows ripped and wood case dried and cracked) I would not call it as portable as say an acoustic guitar, but the thing I had could be carried with ease on a backpack frame or even shoulder strap.
- albert_e 3y ago
  I believe it was pretty common to see musicians carry it on a shoulder strap and use it as the only accompaniment to vocal performances. Street singers would entertain a crowd thus and earn some money. Found some examples of 'portable' harmoniums in use -- https://youtu.be/AAiELn2Intk https://youtu.be/AAiELn2Intk https://youtu.be/bzHsfU6aYHM https://youtu.be/bzHsfU6aYHM https://youtu.be/QjpVosGAB8k https://youtu.be/QjpVosGAB8k This last one is not a real live video but an old movie song (actor enacting a role, not really playing the harmonium himself, actual music is recorded in a studio with a few more accompaniments) ...but kind of depicts a common street scene in south Indian city of old days, with creative license https://youtu.be/wd1Aijoki50 https://youtu.be/wd1Aijoki50
  - dagmx 3y ago
    Yeah it’s definitely a walkable instrument but I’d be surprised if anyone actually treated it as a hikeable one. That’s quite a difference in burden.