4 ms·

Looks like a run of the mill aluminum air insulated mug. What’s special about this brand?

by hombre_fatal 4y ago

bobsmooth 4y ago
Website says there's a layer of insulation between the vacuum walls.
- qchris 4y ago
  I literally hadn't heard of this brand until this comment, but I figured it was worth pointing out that their "layer of insulation" is a bit more complex than it might seem at surface level, being a phase-change insulator. They claim that it changes phase right around the 63 degC mark (which, again, is claimed to be the sweet spot for where most hot beverages are enjoyed). Therefore, a hot drink will quickly move to that temperature when the poured liquid is above that transition temp (the liquid-phase insulator being a good conductor), and then stay close to it after dropping below the transition point, when the solid insulator re-forms and stops conducting heat well. If true, I think it's a really neat application of high-tech materials science in everyday life. [1] https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug (see "Details for the Technogeek)
zamnos 4y ago
That's not likely to get you a winning mug, if threads complaining any the fake reviews and fake products off Amazon. Better to buy direct if you want a mug that's actually made out of thick enough aluminum to resist breaking, and actually has a vacuum to insulate. Otherwise you'll get one insulated by dirty diapers. https://www.yeti.com/ https://www.yeti.com/ would be my preferred vendor for that sort of thing.
- Entinel 4y ago
  Project Farm did a video comparing insulated water bottles and Yeti didn't perform so hot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6j1NJkNzwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6j1NJkNzwI
- fsckboy 4y ago
  Pelican cups have a "sippy lip" on them which is really nice for drinking, feels like a normal cup. It looks like Yeti has partially recessed their lid now, not sure if it's deep enough from the picture. https://www.pelican.com/us/en/products/drinkware https://www.pelican.com/us/en/products/drinkware
- abofh 4y ago
  I didn't know yeti used old diapers for insulation, but thanks for raising awareness!
dmlerner 4y ago
In addition to the normal vaccuum insulation layer, it has a layer that does a (constant-temperature) phase change at ~140F. If your drink is hotter than this, energy flows out of the drink, cooling it and liquifying the layer. If you drink is cooler, energy flows into the drink, solidifying the layer. grep for technogeek [here](https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug)
- qchris 4y ago
  Just a quick, non-hostile technical nitpick: I don't believe that at any point, energy will actually be flowing back into the drink. If the drink is cooler, the insulator layer will become a significantly worse conductor, preventing heat from flowing outward as well as from the liquid-phase insulator, but thermodynamics/the law of entropy shouldn't really allow for the energy to flow back into the liquid, even when the insulator does re-solidify.
  - eru 4y ago
    If you open the mug and rapidly cool the drink (eg dropping a few ice cubes in), heat should be flowing back into the drink? (I mean that's not a crazy notion: if you have any warm mug and fill it with cold stuff, the warm mug will heat up your cold stuff.) You are right that if you keep your mug closed, there shouldn't be any energy flowing back into your drink.
    - dmlerner 4y ago
      If you rapidly cool the drink, you're definitely right - energy would flow PCM -> drink. Otherwise, it's semantic if GP is correct. There would be dynamic equilibrium, i.e. flow of thermal energy in both directions, but no true flow from PCM->drink. The steps would be: 1) Drink > 140, PCM solid 2) energy flows drink -> PCM, drink cools toward 140, PCM liquifies gradually Then two possibilities: 3a) drink cools to 140-epsilon before PCM liquifies fully 4a) PCM gives energy to drink in dynamic equilibrium, while also losing energy to environment, solidifying 5a) PCM is entirely solid at 140 6a) PCM drops below 140. drink gives energy to PCM and PCM to environment. drink -> PCM thermal conductivity is presumably much higher than PCM -> env, so drink and PCM remain at same temp OR 3b) PCM liquifies fully before drink hits 140-epsilon 4b) drink and PCM stay at thermal equilibrium (see 6a) while cooling toward 140. energy flows drink -> PCM and PCM -> environment. The former is faster, so the PCM continues liquifying 5b) PCM is entirely liquid at 140. Due to thermal equilibrium, drink is also at 140. 6b) drink stays at 140 while PCM solidifies 7b) see 5a 8b) see 6a

Looks like a run of the mill aluminum air insulated mug. What’s special about this brand?

bobsmooth 4y ago

Website says there's a layer of insulation between the vacuum walls.

qchris 4y ago
I literally hadn't heard of this brand until this comment, but I figured it was worth pointing out that their "layer of insulation" is a bit more complex than it might seem at surface level, being a phase-change insulator. They claim that it changes phase right around the 63 degC mark (which, again, is claimed to be the sweet spot for where most hot beverages are enjoyed). Therefore, a hot drink will quickly move to that temperature when the poured liquid is above that transition temp (the liquid-phase insulator being a good conductor), and then stay close to it after dropping below the transition point, when the solid insulator re-forms and stops conducting heat well. If true, I think it's a really neat application of high-tech materials science in everyday life. [1] https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug (see "Details for the Technogeek)

zamnos 4y ago

That's not likely to get you a winning mug, if threads complaining any the fake reviews and fake products off Amazon. Better to buy direct if you want a mug that's actually made out of thick enough aluminum to resist breaking, and actually has a vacuum to insulate. Otherwise you'll get one insulated by dirty diapers. https://www.yeti.com/ https://www.yeti.com/ would be my preferred vendor for that sort of thing.

Entinel 4y ago
Project Farm did a video comparing insulated water bottles and Yeti didn't perform so hot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6j1NJkNzwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6j1NJkNzwI
fsckboy 4y ago
Pelican cups have a "sippy lip" on them which is really nice for drinking, feels like a normal cup. It looks like Yeti has partially recessed their lid now, not sure if it's deep enough from the picture. https://www.pelican.com/us/en/products/drinkware https://www.pelican.com/us/en/products/drinkware
abofh 4y ago
I didn't know yeti used old diapers for insulation, but thanks for raising awareness!

dmlerner 4y ago

In addition to the normal vaccuum insulation layer, it has a layer that does a (constant-temperature) phase change at ~140F. If your drink is hotter than this, energy flows out of the drink, cooling it and liquifying the layer. If you drink is cooler, energy flows into the drink, solidifying the layer. grep for technogeek [here](https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug)

qchris 4y ago
Just a quick, non-hostile technical nitpick: I don't believe that at any point, energy will actually be flowing back into the drink. If the drink is cooler, the insulator layer will become a significantly worse conductor, preventing heat from flowing outward as well as from the liquid-phase insulator, but thermodynamics/the law of entropy shouldn't really allow for the energy to flow back into the liquid, even when the insulator does re-solidify.
- eru 4y ago
  If you open the mug and rapidly cool the drink (eg dropping a few ice cubes in), heat should be flowing back into the drink? (I mean that's not a crazy notion: if you have any warm mug and fill it with cold stuff, the warm mug will heat up your cold stuff.) You are right that if you keep your mug closed, there shouldn't be any energy flowing back into your drink.
  - dmlerner 4y ago
    If you rapidly cool the drink, you're definitely right - energy would flow PCM -> drink. Otherwise, it's semantic if GP is correct. There would be dynamic equilibrium, i.e. flow of thermal energy in both directions, but no true flow from PCM->drink. The steps would be: 1) Drink > 140, PCM solid 2) energy flows drink -> PCM, drink cools toward 140, PCM liquifies gradually Then two possibilities: 3a) drink cools to 140-epsilon before PCM liquifies fully 4a) PCM gives energy to drink in dynamic equilibrium, while also losing energy to environment, solidifying 5a) PCM is entirely solid at 140 6a) PCM drops below 140. drink gives energy to PCM and PCM to environment. drink -> PCM thermal conductivity is presumably much higher than PCM -> env, so drink and PCM remain at same temp OR 3b) PCM liquifies fully before drink hits 140-epsilon 4b) drink and PCM stay at thermal equilibrium (see 6a) while cooling toward 140. energy flows drink -> PCM and PCM -> environment. The former is faster, so the PCM continues liquifying 5b) PCM is entirely liquid at 140. Due to thermal equilibrium, drink is also at 140. 6b) drink stays at 140 while PCM solidifies 7b) see 5a 8b) see 6a