4 ms·

I agree with your overall point, but I'd like to correct a pet peeve of mine. Private prisons are insignificant. The total government spending on private priso

I agree with your overall point, but I'd like to correct a pet peeve of mine. Private prisons are insignificant. The total government spending on private prisons at all levels is less than 1% of the government run prisons' payroll. Almost nobody is imprisoned in a privately run prison in the USA. (Private immigration detention is more significant) Private prisons are a distraction from the real privatization issue in the prison system: public prisons outsourcing services to private companies. Nearly every prisoner in the US has to pay a private company a large amount of money to talk to their family. This is despite the fact we know that improving communication between prisoners and their family significantly decreases the risk they'll commit crimes once released. Rather than have the prison pay a fee to the company the company pays the prison a kickback from their profits, corrupting the incentives. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/money.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/money.html

uoaei 3y ago
Additionally, it's not just the first-order expenditures that are of interest: it's also the second-order loss from genpop of otherwise economically productive people further depressing the gains we could make as a public (measured in GDP or whatever else) as well as the third-order issues around stable housing/families and the effects those arrangements have on future (our childrens') productivity.
chiefalchemist 3y ago
But that 1% - money not people - does how much sociopolitical damage? It leeds to how many damaged individuals? How much does it contribute to the need social support programs (i.e., the unemployable need SNAP, etc.)? Seperates how many fathers from their families? Fractures communities? And so on... The cost to society is significantly more than that budget figure. "U.S. incarcerates more than any other nation: report" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-prison-idUSN2862169320080228 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-prison-idUSN286...
- iudqnolq 3y ago
  I hate private prisons. But we've nearly won the battle against them already. And they're a convenient way for a lot of people to pretend that the whole public system isn't rotten to the core. > does how much sociopolitical damage? It leeds to how many damaged individuals? How much does it contribute to the need social support programs... Compared to publicly run prisons it leads to much much less damage > The cost to society is significantly more than that budget figure. Absolutely. But it works to compare them: the social cost of private and public prisons is probably roughly proportional to their budget. > "U.S. incarcerates more than any other nation: report" A huge problem I agree. But not one that would be fixed by getting rid of private prisons.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    > A huge problem I agree. But not one that would be fixed by getting rid of private prisons. Fixed 100%? No. But you might be underestimating the power and influence of the Prison Industrial Complex. They can dump money into anyone and anything that promotes fear of higher crime. Their lobbying can discourage restorative justice, etc. These _______ Industrial Complexes don't sit still. They're like any other company / industry...they do whatever they can to create more demand for their product.
    - iudqnolq 3y ago
      They didn't sit still. They decided it'd be easier to give up and moved to private immigration detention and private prison services and private parole services and so on. Total private prison profits are less than 5% of military industrial complex donations to Congress. They aren't comparable. https://www.citizen.org/article/military-industrial-complex-contributions-report/ https://www.citizen.org/article/military-industrial-complex-...
      - chiefalchemist 3y ago
        The Prison Industrial Complex is its own complex. It's a beast that roams the world looking for opportunities. To hell with the sociopolitical damage from that. The beast needs to be fed. Recently there was a judge who was being paid off to send more juveniles to a local facility. Let's not be naive. Similar is happening elsewhere. We simply don't know about it. The MIC wrote the blue print and other industries said, "We can do that as well." Whether that's prisons or pharma or...take your picks. Just because The MIC is massive and is the OG doesn't mean these other forces aren't exerting their will. They have more than enough resources (money) to kick greed into high gear. The MIC is proud of its children.

uoaei 3y ago

Additionally, it's not just the first-order expenditures that are of interest: it's also the second-order loss from genpop of otherwise economically productive people further depressing the gains we could make as a public (measured in GDP or whatever else) as well as the third-order issues around stable housing/families and the effects those arrangements have on future (our childrens') productivity.

chiefalchemist 3y ago

But that 1% - money not people - does how much sociopolitical damage? It leeds to how many damaged individuals? How much does it contribute to the need social support programs (i.e., the unemployable need SNAP, etc.)? Seperates how many fathers from their families? Fractures communities? And so on... The cost to society is significantly more than that budget figure. "U.S. incarcerates more than any other nation: report" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-prison-idUSN2862169320080228 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-prison-idUSN286...

iudqnolq 3y ago
I hate private prisons. But we've nearly won the battle against them already. And they're a convenient way for a lot of people to pretend that the whole public system isn't rotten to the core. > does how much sociopolitical damage? It leeds to how many damaged individuals? How much does it contribute to the need social support programs... Compared to publicly run prisons it leads to much much less damage > The cost to society is significantly more than that budget figure. Absolutely. But it works to compare them: the social cost of private and public prisons is probably roughly proportional to their budget. > "U.S. incarcerates more than any other nation: report" A huge problem I agree. But not one that would be fixed by getting rid of private prisons.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  > A huge problem I agree. But not one that would be fixed by getting rid of private prisons. Fixed 100%? No. But you might be underestimating the power and influence of the Prison Industrial Complex. They can dump money into anyone and anything that promotes fear of higher crime. Their lobbying can discourage restorative justice, etc. These _______ Industrial Complexes don't sit still. They're like any other company / industry...they do whatever they can to create more demand for their product.
  - iudqnolq 3y ago
    They didn't sit still. They decided it'd be easier to give up and moved to private immigration detention and private prison services and private parole services and so on. Total private prison profits are less than 5% of military industrial complex donations to Congress. They aren't comparable. https://www.citizen.org/article/military-industrial-complex-contributions-report/ https://www.citizen.org/article/military-industrial-complex-...
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      The Prison Industrial Complex is its own complex. It's a beast that roams the world looking for opportunities. To hell with the sociopolitical damage from that. The beast needs to be fed. Recently there was a judge who was being paid off to send more juveniles to a local facility. Let's not be naive. Similar is happening elsewhere. We simply don't know about it. The MIC wrote the blue print and other industries said, "We can do that as well." Whether that's prisons or pharma or...take your picks. Just because The MIC is massive and is the OG doesn't mean these other forces aren't exerting their will. They have more than enough resources (money) to kick greed into high gear. The MIC is proud of its children.