8 ms·

I wonder how things would be different if Microsoft never gave them that life-line when they needed it.

by kbd 3y ago

exhilaration 3y ago
I imagine that Apple would have been bought by HP or IBM and you can guess how that would have turned out.
bdcravens 3y ago
Microsoft needed an OS competitor to have any viable antitrust defense.
- Y-bar 3y ago
  ... one which they also made a nice little profit of. $150M in the non-voting stock they bought in 1997 turned into $550M in 2003 when they sold most of it.
  - HeckFeck 3y ago
    Ouch. They must've wished that they kept that stock for a few more years.
    - simondotau 3y ago
      If Microsoft had held onto it, their investment in Apple would have been more profitable than anything else Microsoft did in the past 20 years.
      - swores 3y ago
        On the face of it that sounds like a burn on Microsoft, wisely found by studying the finances, but... by the nature of Apple being the best performing stock in the world for multiple years isn't the same true for most companies, that they could've made more money investing in Apple than in themselves? Heck, maybe investing hundreds of millions in Apple today would, in X years, be worth more money than spending marketing money / development budgets for new features for their own products; or worth more than investing in OpenAI and related products - but it's not exactly something anyone would suggest Microsoft should do (in terms of just becoming a shareholder, of course there could be collaborations without changing this point).
        simondotau 3y ago
        > isn't the same true for most companies Technically yes, but not really. It’s specifically valid to observe with regards to Microsoft because Microsoft did in actual fact hold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Apple stock for a decent stretch of time. Most companies did not. Microsoft chose to sell their Apple stock in 2003. This was entirely their choice. They didn't have to. They could have sold it in 2005 and made an additional billion dollars. They could have sold it in 2007 and made another ten billion dollars. They could have sold it today and made a hundred billion dollars.
rasz 3y ago
Microsoft never gave them any lifeline. Microsoft was caught shipping stolen Apple Quicktime code and quietly settled with Apple to the tune of $150mil and shipping Apple versions of Office/IE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Canyon_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Canyon_Company https://www.theregister.com/1998/10/29/microsoft_paid_apple_150m/ https://www.theregister.com/1998/10/29/microsoft_paid_apple_... "the [QuickTime] patent dispute was resolved with cross-licence and significant payment to Apple." The payment was $150 million." "Intel gave this code to Microsoft as part of a joint development program called Display Control Interface." "Canyon admitted that it had copied to Intel code developed for and assigned to Apple. In September 1994, Apple's software was distributed by Microsoft in its developer kits, and in Microsoft's Video for Windows version 1.1d."
- whinenot 3y ago
  Fun fact: Steve borrowed my friend's cell phone for this call which became the cover photo.[0] [0]https://infostory.com/2013/08/18/steve-jobs-thank-you-bill-gates/ https://infostory.com/2013/08/18/steve-jobs-thank-you-bill-g...
- nl 3y ago
  MS buying Apple stock involved a pretty complicated deal that also involved settling a number of court disputes between the two companies, Apple agreeing to ship Internet Explorer for Mac (rather than Netscape) and MS agreeing to ship Office for at least 5 more years. At the time and subsequently it was absolutely seen as a lifeline. For example: > Providing the biggest sign of hope yet for ailing Apple Computer, Microsoft today announced it was forging a new era of cooperation with its longtime rival that includes an investment of $150 million. [snip] News of the alliance sent Apple's stock up $7 a share, or 35 percent https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19970806&slug=2553374 https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19970806&slug...
  - scarface74 3y ago
    And “their new alliance” was to keep shipping Office for the Mac like they had done for the past decade…
scarface74 3y ago
Well seeing that never happened… When Microsoft invested a paltry $250M in Apple, Apple had already secured a line of credit of $4 Billion. On top of that, Apple turned around a spent $100 million the same quarter to buy out PowerComputing’s Mac license. Apple lost way more than $150 million before they became profitable.

I wonder how things would be different if Microsoft never gave them that life-line when they needed it.

by kbd 3y ago

I wonder how things would be different if Microsoft never gave them that life-line when they needed it.

exhilaration 3y ago

I imagine that Apple would have been bought by HP or IBM and you can guess how that would have turned out.

bdcravens 3y ago

Microsoft needed an OS competitor to have any viable antitrust defense.

Y-bar 3y ago
... one which they also made a nice little profit of. $150M in the non-voting stock they bought in 1997 turned into $550M in 2003 when they sold most of it.
- HeckFeck 3y ago
  Ouch. They must've wished that they kept that stock for a few more years.
  - simondotau 3y ago
    If Microsoft had held onto it, their investment in Apple would have been more profitable than anything else Microsoft did in the past 20 years.
    - swores 3y ago
      On the face of it that sounds like a burn on Microsoft, wisely found by studying the finances, but... by the nature of Apple being the best performing stock in the world for multiple years isn't the same true for most companies, that they could've made more money investing in Apple than in themselves? Heck, maybe investing hundreds of millions in Apple today would, in X years, be worth more money than spending marketing money / development budgets for new features for their own products; or worth more than investing in OpenAI and related products - but it's not exactly something anyone would suggest Microsoft should do (in terms of just becoming a shareholder, of course there could be collaborations without changing this point).
      - simondotau 3y ago
        > isn't the same true for most companies Technically yes, but not really. It’s specifically valid to observe with regards to Microsoft because Microsoft did in actual fact hold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Apple stock for a decent stretch of time. Most companies did not. Microsoft chose to sell their Apple stock in 2003. This was entirely their choice. They didn't have to. They could have sold it in 2005 and made an additional billion dollars. They could have sold it in 2007 and made another ten billion dollars. They could have sold it today and made a hundred billion dollars.

rasz 3y ago

Microsoft never gave them any lifeline. Microsoft was caught shipping stolen Apple Quicktime code and quietly settled with Apple to the tune of $150mil and shipping Apple versions of Office/IE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Canyon_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Canyon_Company https://www.theregister.com/1998/10/29/microsoft_paid_apple_150m/ https://www.theregister.com/1998/10/29/microsoft_paid_apple_... "the [QuickTime] patent dispute was resolved with cross-licence and significant payment to Apple." The payment was $150 million." "Intel gave this code to Microsoft as part of a joint development program called Display Control Interface." "Canyon admitted that it had copied to Intel code developed for and assigned to Apple. In September 1994, Apple's software was distributed by Microsoft in its developer kits, and in Microsoft's Video for Windows version 1.1d."

whinenot 3y ago
Fun fact: Steve borrowed my friend's cell phone for this call which became the cover photo.[0] [0]https://infostory.com/2013/08/18/steve-jobs-thank-you-bill-gates/ https://infostory.com/2013/08/18/steve-jobs-thank-you-bill-g...
nl 3y ago
MS buying Apple stock involved a pretty complicated deal that also involved settling a number of court disputes between the two companies, Apple agreeing to ship Internet Explorer for Mac (rather than Netscape) and MS agreeing to ship Office for at least 5 more years. At the time and subsequently it was absolutely seen as a lifeline. For example: > Providing the biggest sign of hope yet for ailing Apple Computer, Microsoft today announced it was forging a new era of cooperation with its longtime rival that includes an investment of $150 million. [snip] News of the alliance sent Apple's stock up $7 a share, or 35 percent https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19970806&slug=2553374 https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19970806&slug...
- scarface74 3y ago
  And “their new alliance” was to keep shipping Office for the Mac like they had done for the past decade…

scarface74 3y ago

Well seeing that never happened… When Microsoft invested a paltry $250M in Apple, Apple had already secured a line of credit of $4 Billion. On top of that, Apple turned around a spent $100 million the same quarter to buy out PowerComputing’s Mac license. Apple lost way more than $150 million before they became profitable.