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> Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again. I've extensively traveled the world, to more than 70 count

> Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again. I've extensively traveled the world, to more than 70 countries, and have spent years of my life living abroad. The United States is far more diverse and heterogeneous than most other countries in the world, contrary to your statements. Some subsets of the US are regionally /very/ homogeneous, however, which is part of my point. It would help to start thinking of the US for what it is, a federation of 50 states, not a single entity with a single mind. There is a high level of diversity within the US, but in each state, there tends to be a balance point towards some particular dominant culture, which can include religion, and in the case of Utah was explicitly created to include religion (Utah was founded to give the Mormons a home). > The LDS church has prohibited polygamy for well over a century now: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la... Officially. Unofficially, polygamy is still widely practiced in Utah as part of the official doctrine of FDLS, which is the breakaway Fundamental sect of the LDS Church. The FDLS has recently gained more prominence, which lead to Utah making a surprising reversal recently by effectively decriminalizing polygamy, something that was for a long time a felony in Utah in order to follow LDS Church doctrine that banned polygamy as part of the split from FDLS. FDLS exists almost entirely within the state of Utah however, and the words of the Book of Mormon on this topic are literally plainly in black and white. Technically speaking, the Quran heavily restricts polygamy in Al-Nisa', 4:3 and clarified in Al-Nisa', 4:129. In practice however, polygamy is widely practiced in the Middle East and is a core part of the way in which many people practice Islam and has had no significant actions taken against it. It's specifically a core tenet of the Wahabi sect of Islam, which is the dominant sect in the modern Middle East (although other sects generally reject polygamy).

ssnistfajen 4y ago
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- tristor 4y ago
  > [X] Doubt My multiple full passports say otherwise. > Shame on all those money you wasted travelling then because you clearly didn't make good use of it. I'm happy with my experiences. I'm not sure what parts of the world you went to, but most of the world is /very/ homogeneous. There are parts of the world that are more diverse than the US, on some variable, for instance pretty much anywhere in Africa is more ethnically and linguistically diverse than anywhere in the rest of the world. But in the mix of things, the US is not the most diverse country, but is very much near the top. Canada is more diverse than the US, as an example, but the US is more diverse than essentially any country in Europe, any country in South America except perhaps Brazil, and most countries in Asia. It somewhat depends on what you mean by "diversity"? But the US has a mix of ethnic groups, religious groups, and cultural groups, as well as languages. You only don't see it because of assimilation over generations, but each of the groups leaves their mark on those regions in the US.
  - ssnistfajen 4y ago
    [flagged]
- George83728 4y ago
  You should try disagreeing without personal attacks.
  - ssnistfajen 4y ago
    [flagged]
nocoolnametom 4y ago
Also, the SLC branch of the LDS movement hasn't performed polygamist marriages (for the living) since 1904[1], but they never annulled existing marriages from before then, so it's still less than a century since the prohibition against living polygamous marriages has been fully in effect by not having any existing within the membership. It's also still 100% part of the doctrine when it comes to the next life, and D&C 132 has never been officially repudiated or removed from the open canon. The current President/Prophet is sealed to two women for time and all eternity. This is an option only available to the men of the church, no such thing as polyandry (even though Joseph Smith himself was married to married women). As for the Respect for Marriage Act, they were pretty open about supporting it because it carves out exceptions against employment discrimination for religions (and they're certainly not the only religion to support it because of this). They're still pretty dead-set against having to support an employee's paycheck when that employee does everything else required for the job but is LGBTQ+. But I'd agree that the situation is getting better. SLC has a thriving LGBTQ population and social scene. [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/the-manifesto-and-the-end-of-plural-marriage?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi...
selcuka 4y ago
> Technically speaking, the Quran heavily restricts polygamy in Al-Nisa', 4:3 Al-Nisa 4:3 literally says: > Each man may marry two or three or four but do not exceed this I'm not sure if this counts as a heavy restriction. > [...] or restrict yourself to what your right hands own of slavegirls since these do not have the same rights as wives It also allows having an infinite number of slavegirls.
- tristor 4y ago
  This is open to interpretation, but the reading I've always heard for this passage is it is intended to restrict polygamy except in the case in which you are marrying orphan girls. "If you fear you might fail to give orphan women their ˹due˺ rights ˹if you were to marry them˺, then marry other women of your choice—two, three, or four. But if you are afraid you will fail to maintain justice, then ˹content yourselves with˺ one1 or those ˹bondwomen˺ in your possession.2 This way you are less likely to commit injustice." The reason I said passage 4:129 gives context is that it says "You will never be able to maintain ˹emotional˺ justice between your wives—no matter how keen you are. So do not totally incline towards one leaving the other in suspense.1 And if you do what is right and are mindful ˹of Allah˺, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful." The interpretation I've heard is that while the Quran does not forbid polygamy, it restricts it by stating that it is required that you maintain equality between your wives and do not raise one above another, but advises that this is often impossible, so it is best to only have a single wife, and further that it is advised only to marry more than one wife in the case that you are marrying orphan girls. I am not Muslim, I am not a religious scholar, however I have read the major religious works of all of the major religions and some experts opinions of them, and this is my understanding. You may not consider this a "restriction", it's certainly rather loose, but it's been my interpretation that the Quran does not outright endorse unrestricted polygamy, it is allowed only in specific circumstances (orphanage), and advised against.
  - selcuka 4y ago
    It is indeed open to intepretation, but given the prophet of the said book got married at least 11 times, and he had 9 wives when he died, I tend to interpret it in a different way.
ngngngng 4y ago
> Unofficially, polygamy is still widely practiced in Utah as part of the official doctrine of FDLS Why does all the rationality I come to expect on hacker news go out the window once my religion is being discussed? Or is it I only notice issues when I'm a subject matter expert? Polygamists are 1% of Utah's population. The decriminalization of polygamy has nothing to do with fundamentalists gaining prominence, and everything to do with helping people escape. > the words of the Book of Mormon on this topic are literally plainly in black and white. Not sure what is meant by this. The Book of Mormon plainly states that monogamy is the norm and polygamy, while sometimes allowed, is not standard.

ssnistfajen 4y ago

[flagged]

tristor 4y ago
> [X] Doubt My multiple full passports say otherwise. > Shame on all those money you wasted travelling then because you clearly didn't make good use of it. I'm happy with my experiences. I'm not sure what parts of the world you went to, but most of the world is /very/ homogeneous. There are parts of the world that are more diverse than the US, on some variable, for instance pretty much anywhere in Africa is more ethnically and linguistically diverse than anywhere in the rest of the world. But in the mix of things, the US is not the most diverse country, but is very much near the top. Canada is more diverse than the US, as an example, but the US is more diverse than essentially any country in Europe, any country in South America except perhaps Brazil, and most countries in Asia. It somewhat depends on what you mean by "diversity"? But the US has a mix of ethnic groups, religious groups, and cultural groups, as well as languages. You only don't see it because of assimilation over generations, but each of the groups leaves their mark on those regions in the US.
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  [flagged]
George83728 4y ago
You should try disagreeing without personal attacks.
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  [flagged]

nocoolnametom 4y ago

Also, the SLC branch of the LDS movement hasn't performed polygamist marriages (for the living) since 1904[1], but they never annulled existing marriages from before then, so it's still less than a century since the prohibition against living polygamous marriages has been fully in effect by not having any existing within the membership. It's also still 100% part of the doctrine when it comes to the next life, and D&C 132 has never been officially repudiated or removed from the open canon. The current President/Prophet is sealed to two women for time and all eternity. This is an option only available to the men of the church, no such thing as polyandry (even though Joseph Smith himself was married to married women). As for the Respect for Marriage Act, they were pretty open about supporting it because it carves out exceptions against employment discrimination for religions (and they're certainly not the only religion to support it because of this). They're still pretty dead-set against having to support an employee's paycheck when that employee does everything else required for the job but is LGBTQ+. But I'd agree that the situation is getting better. SLC has a thriving LGBTQ population and social scene. [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/the-manifesto-and-the-end-of-plural-marriage?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi...

selcuka 4y ago

> Technically speaking, the Quran heavily restricts polygamy in Al-Nisa', 4:3 Al-Nisa 4:3 literally says: > Each man may marry two or three or four but do not exceed this I'm not sure if this counts as a heavy restriction. > [...] or restrict yourself to what your right hands own of slavegirls since these do not have the same rights as wives It also allows having an infinite number of slavegirls.

tristor 4y ago
This is open to interpretation, but the reading I've always heard for this passage is it is intended to restrict polygamy except in the case in which you are marrying orphan girls. "If you fear you might fail to give orphan women their ˹due˺ rights ˹if you were to marry them˺, then marry other women of your choice—two, three, or four. But if you are afraid you will fail to maintain justice, then ˹content yourselves with˺ one1 or those ˹bondwomen˺ in your possession.2 This way you are less likely to commit injustice." The reason I said passage 4:129 gives context is that it says "You will never be able to maintain ˹emotional˺ justice between your wives—no matter how keen you are. So do not totally incline towards one leaving the other in suspense.1 And if you do what is right and are mindful ˹of Allah˺, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful." The interpretation I've heard is that while the Quran does not forbid polygamy, it restricts it by stating that it is required that you maintain equality between your wives and do not raise one above another, but advises that this is often impossible, so it is best to only have a single wife, and further that it is advised only to marry more than one wife in the case that you are marrying orphan girls. I am not Muslim, I am not a religious scholar, however I have read the major religious works of all of the major religions and some experts opinions of them, and this is my understanding. You may not consider this a "restriction", it's certainly rather loose, but it's been my interpretation that the Quran does not outright endorse unrestricted polygamy, it is allowed only in specific circumstances (orphanage), and advised against.
- selcuka 4y ago
  It is indeed open to intepretation, but given the prophet of the said book got married at least 11 times, and he had 9 wives when he died, I tend to interpret it in a different way.

ngngngng 4y ago

> Unofficially, polygamy is still widely practiced in Utah as part of the official doctrine of FDLS Why does all the rationality I come to expect on hacker news go out the window once my religion is being discussed? Or is it I only notice issues when I'm a subject matter expert? Polygamists are 1% of Utah's population. The decriminalization of polygamy has nothing to do with fundamentalists gaining prominence, and everything to do with helping people escape. > the words of the Book of Mormon on this topic are literally plainly in black and white. Not sure what is meant by this. The Book of Mormon plainly states that monogamy is the norm and polygamy, while sometimes allowed, is not standard.