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Video of "Why would anyone have one?" Around 15:50: https://youtu.be/Vuw72THyXsQ?t=942 https://youtu.be/Vuw72THyXsQ?t=942 They were laughing at it. So hilario

Video of "Why would anyone have one?" Around 15:50: https://youtu.be/Vuw72THyXsQ?t=942 https://youtu.be/Vuw72THyXsQ?t=942 They were laughing at it. So hilarious, I'm in stitches over the ignorance.

catiopatio 3y ago
Why would I choose an Android phone? Apple does not spy on me, and does not sell my information to advertisers. An iPhone SE is $429, or can be financed at the same price, with zero interest, at $17.87 for 24 months. Why would I want to join Google’s advertiser-driven ecosystem, and voluntarily make myself into Google’s product?
- belltaco 3y ago
  Not sure how that's a good response. Nobody is this thread is saying you should be forced into not using Apple phones.
- circuit10 3y ago
  If that's your main concern you'd be better off with a "degoogled" OS on an Android phone with an unlocked bootloader. iOS is locked down and you can't really see or control what information is being sent. Here are some other reasons why you or other people might choose Android phones: - Generally cheaper/better value, especially on the low end - Less locked down (e.g. you can actually choose what browser engine you want to use, or sideload apps relatively easily) - More options to choose from - The core OS is FOSS If you like iPhones that's fine but it's not true that there's literally no reason for anyone to get an Android phone
  - catiopatio 3y ago
    I’m sure someone running a custom Android image with an unlocked bootloader can figure out an Android-compatible alternative to AirTag.
    - Arch-TK 3y ago
      There is no alternative to AirTags which doesn't take up additional space or come with major downsides. The way AirTags work is by using low power ultra wideband communications to respond to what are effectively ping packets which get sent out by apple devices in the area. The devices get the AirTag's ID and the distance and submit it to Apple for processing. Apple uses the distance information to trilaterate the AirTags and sends this information to the owner of the tag. As such, AirTags only work because of Apple's market position and extremely wide reach. Put simply, Apple is abusing their control over their devices and the trust their users have placed in them to perform a form of mass surveillance.
      - sleepybrett 3y ago
        Tile works the same way but just with bluetooth. Any phone with a tile app on it is snitching on every tag it sees. Apple of course wins here because it's just every damn iphone, not just the ones that have an app installed. As someone who has used both the airtag is just plain better when it comes to locating it, the uwb stuff is awesome. But the tile tags have some upsides as well. I love the button on the tile that you can use to ring your phone, helps solve ye olde.. i have my keys, where's my phone problem.
      - comex 3y ago
        AirTags encrypt the location data end-to-end between the finding device and the Find My app on the owner’s devices. There’s no mass surveillance, unless you count masses of individual users surveilling their own AirTags.
      - scarface74 3y ago
        So Apple is abusing their control over devices by making devices that work well together?
      - catiopatio 3y ago
        I fail to see any abuse or mass surveillance. “Find my” is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple does not have access to the device location or anyone’s identity: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/find-my-security-sec6cbc80fd0/web https://support.apple.com/guide/security/find-my-security-se...
  - glogla 3y ago
    How are degoogled phones nowadays? Last time I tried that, it was very limited. No paying by phone, no banking apps (and most banks require app as second factor), no proper maps with navigation and routing, no streaming music, no "work" apps like Teams or Slack, no utility apps like taxis or public transport. Even messaging apps wouldn't work well due to lack of push notifications. Degoogled Android was basically touch display dumbphone. Which is perfect for some people who want it that way, but I like the ability to use public transport, get a cab or message people by something else than a text. edit: I think there might be a difference between degoogled as in not registered to play store but still having play services install, and degoogled as using shim play services? I honestly don't remember.
    - kevviiinn 3y ago
      Grapheneos is pretty solid
    - commoner 3y ago
      microG works well as a substitute for the Google Play Services client. I generally don't have issues with banking apps on microG, though people using apps for banks based in other regions might have different experiences. Navigation, music streaming, Microsoft Teams, Slack, rideshare, and public transit apps work flawlessly. Push messaging is fully functional. As a bonus, microG does not implement any of the advertising features in Google Play Services. https://microg.org https://microg.org Operating systems that have microG preinstalled include CalyxOS, /e/, and LineageOS for microG.
- Zircom 3y ago
  At least for me a lot of automation and workflow stuff I have just doesn't exist on iPhones. I make heavy use of buzzkill, taskr and iftt, and the first two have no equivalent on iOS and probably never will. Pretty sure home screen widgets are next to non-existent as well on iOS.
  - catiopatio 3y ago
    Thanks for the informative answer. Frankly, it’s a shame that most consumers have to choose between either spyware-computer or privacy-preserving-consumption-console. That said, I simply can’t blame someone for considering an iPhone to be the default choice for the majority of consumers.
  - belltaco 3y ago
    > I make heavy use of buzzkill, taskr and iftt What do you use them for? That sounds interesting.
    - Zircom 3y ago
      A bunch of stupid stuff really. There's janky series of actions I have set up where my phone detects when I get to my office building and sends a text triggers turning my computer on for me, signs in, and then runs a start up script(which starts all my programs and launches an RDP session as well, which has its own start up script as well that gets run) and then locks the screen again, so it's all ready when I sit down. Back when I played WoW I'd also use a similar system to launch the game and wait in the login queue on raid nights for me while I was driving home. My spouse sometimes will text me from upstairs when she needs something, but I work from the office 2 days a week but she never remembers(she has some memory issues...) so I have it set to send her a reminder that I'm not home the first time she texts me for the day, but doesnt mark the messages as read or dismiss the notification so I can still see what she sent and reply if I need to. Also have it set to replay the notification sounds/buzz for messages from her outside of work hours because I am bad at checking my phone and sometimes forget to text her back. It also stickies the notifications from her in the slide-down menu so I can't accidentally dismiss them without replying. Our oncall system at work has us dial into a phone tree and punch in some numbers to set it to yourself, I have my phone do it automatically for me. I have a specific camera shortcut that will automatically text my spouse any pictures taken for that specific session until the app is closed/exited, usually its pictures of our cats but also useful when she's taking pictures with my phone for whatever reason or if we're having someone take a photo of the two of us, saves the trouble of having to send it manually each time. Whenever the WiFI goes down at the house I have it set to turn my phone hotspot on, then send a text that triggers my computer to connect to the hotspot network, sign into the spectrum website and check for outages so I know what is broken.
- wildrhythms 3y ago
  >Apple does not spy on me There's something ironic to find this comment on a video of a former cop surrounded by other cops touting the surveillance features Apple's product offers exclusively.
  - izzydata 3y ago
    Is it even true? It seems hard to believe Apple doesn't spy on people or sell information to advertisers.
    - interpol_p 3y ago
      As far as I am aware, they do not sell information to advertisers. Doing so would be a bad business move for them, anyway (ditching long term brand trust for short term profit?) On AirTag location privacy, from Apple's site [1]: > Only you can see where your AirTag is. Your location data and history are never stored on the AirTag itself. Devices that relay the location of your AirTag also stay anonymous, and that location data is encrypted every step of the way. So not even Apple knows the location of your AirTag or the identity of the device that helps find it. I don't think they're lying about this. [1] https://www.apple.com/airtag/ https://www.apple.com/airtag/
      - lstamour 3y ago
        Edit: I’m debating deleting this post. It doesn’t have any references to back it up, and I just realized that if the tracking network encrypts the location with the public key such that the private key is required to decrypt the location, it is indeed possible for Apple to not know where devices are because the decryption of the location might be done on your device rather than on Apple’s servers, if they wanted to. Original post follows: I haven’t read any white papers on how this works, but I’m going to call “slight BS” anyway. Technically, Apple knows the location of the AirTag, that’s how their network works. The payload of airtag data might be encrypted, but Apple also keeps the keys for your AirTags so that you don’t have to associate new AirTags with each Apple device you want to use Find My on. While I don’t doubt that Apple strictly reduces what information they log or identify about AirTags to literally the bare minimum that keeps the service running, it’s a bit ingenuous to suggest Apple doesn’t know. What I mean by this is Apple isn’t lying when they say they don’t know the location of your AirTag (until you use their app to look for it) but it is true they know the location of all AirTags synced to their network, they just don’t know which one is yours until you go looking for it. Encryption probably plays a role in that asymmetric encryption would allow Apple to not know any AirTag details until your devices provide the decryption key. A handshake could be involved too so that your device can’t decrypt the location of the tag without proving they own the associated encryption key. But presumably Apple has a way of issuing or remotely authorizing against such keys. It is likely the case that your password for your phone protects Apple from gaining access to the keys thus justifying the position that Apple doesn’t have access because they don’t have your keys. Apple would have to act maliciously with their software into order to break this system, and it’s not worth it for them to do so. I’m not saying they’re lying but they are simplifying things a bit.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > Apple does not spy on me Apple can be compelled to spy on you[0]. > and does not sell my information to advertisers Apple is an advertiser. [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    They don't even have to be compelled, they can simply be asked to share users' private data.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      They can also use commercially-available hardware like the Greykey to bruteforce iPhone and Android logins without Apple or Google's permission whatsoever. Isn't modern technology fun?
    - catiopatio 3y ago
      Apple is very clear about what they have access to, and what they do not. They cannot share what they do not have, or do not have the encryption keys to.
  - catiopatio 3y ago
    > Apple can be compelled to spy on you[0]. It’s dishonest to equate lawful warrants with Google’s targeted advertising and exploitation of our information. Furthermore, Apple is clear about what information they have access to, and what information they don’t, and have consistently, year-over-year, reduced the information they actually have access to. > Apple is an advertiser. This is another disingenuous false equivalency. Apple does not gather personal information from our devices for advertising, and always requires explicit opt-in before making use of any data provided to them through the use of their services.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > It’s dishonest to equate lawful warrants with Google’s targeted advertising and exploitation of our information. Is it? Google has not suffocated the AOSP. If you don't want their advertising or services, you can remove it. No such option exists on iOS, so you're effectively locked into an inherently insecure product. You can claim that you trust the parties with the backdoor key, but that doesn't change the fact that the key exists. In mainland China, that puts Apple in the awkward situation of complying with lawful warrants that are complicit in human rights violations. Trusting wholesome, benevolent government collaboration is not enough. Apple has to design a transparent and accountable security system if they want their privacy stance to look like something other than a theater scripted on whitepapers. > This is another disingenuous false equivalency. Apple is an advertiser, though. You cannot pretend like they don't also have a conflict of interest here. Not to mention, they're equally capricious on the service upsell - the in-OS advertising was one of the reasons I left their ecosystem in the first place.
- rr808 3y ago
  > $17.87 for 24 months. Yeah I'm too cheap to pay that much.
- politelemon 3y ago
  > Apple does not spy on me, and does not sell my information to advertisers. You have misunderstood privacy. It's not limited to selling of information. It's whether you control your own data. With Apple you certainly don't. You are a product either way.

Video of "Why would anyone have one?" Around 15:50: https://youtu.be/Vuw72THyXsQ?t=942 https://youtu.be/Vuw72THyXsQ?t=942 They were laughing at it. So hilarious, I'm in stitches over the ignorance.

catiopatio 3y ago

Why would I choose an Android phone? Apple does not spy on me, and does not sell my information to advertisers. An iPhone SE is $429, or can be financed at the same price, with zero interest, at $17.87 for 24 months. Why would I want to join Google’s advertiser-driven ecosystem, and voluntarily make myself into Google’s product?

belltaco 3y ago
Not sure how that's a good response. Nobody is this thread is saying you should be forced into not using Apple phones.
circuit10 3y ago
If that's your main concern you'd be better off with a "degoogled" OS on an Android phone with an unlocked bootloader. iOS is locked down and you can't really see or control what information is being sent. Here are some other reasons why you or other people might choose Android phones: - Generally cheaper/better value, especially on the low end - Less locked down (e.g. you can actually choose what browser engine you want to use, or sideload apps relatively easily) - More options to choose from - The core OS is FOSS If you like iPhones that's fine but it's not true that there's literally no reason for anyone to get an Android phone
- catiopatio 3y ago
  I’m sure someone running a custom Android image with an unlocked bootloader can figure out an Android-compatible alternative to AirTag.
  - Arch-TK 3y ago
    There is no alternative to AirTags which doesn't take up additional space or come with major downsides. The way AirTags work is by using low power ultra wideband communications to respond to what are effectively ping packets which get sent out by apple devices in the area. The devices get the AirTag's ID and the distance and submit it to Apple for processing. Apple uses the distance information to trilaterate the AirTags and sends this information to the owner of the tag. As such, AirTags only work because of Apple's market position and extremely wide reach. Put simply, Apple is abusing their control over their devices and the trust their users have placed in them to perform a form of mass surveillance.
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
      Tile works the same way but just with bluetooth. Any phone with a tile app on it is snitching on every tag it sees. Apple of course wins here because it's just every damn iphone, not just the ones that have an app installed. As someone who has used both the airtag is just plain better when it comes to locating it, the uwb stuff is awesome. But the tile tags have some upsides as well. I love the button on the tile that you can use to ring your phone, helps solve ye olde.. i have my keys, where's my phone problem.
    - comex 3y ago
      AirTags encrypt the location data end-to-end between the finding device and the Find My app on the owner’s devices. There’s no mass surveillance, unless you count masses of individual users surveilling their own AirTags.
    - scarface74 3y ago
      So Apple is abusing their control over devices by making devices that work well together?
    - catiopatio 3y ago
      I fail to see any abuse or mass surveillance. “Find my” is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple does not have access to the device location or anyone’s identity: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/find-my-security-sec6cbc80fd0/web https://support.apple.com/guide/security/find-my-security-se...
- glogla 3y ago
  How are degoogled phones nowadays? Last time I tried that, it was very limited. No paying by phone, no banking apps (and most banks require app as second factor), no proper maps with navigation and routing, no streaming music, no "work" apps like Teams or Slack, no utility apps like taxis or public transport. Even messaging apps wouldn't work well due to lack of push notifications. Degoogled Android was basically touch display dumbphone. Which is perfect for some people who want it that way, but I like the ability to use public transport, get a cab or message people by something else than a text. edit: I think there might be a difference between degoogled as in not registered to play store but still having play services install, and degoogled as using shim play services? I honestly don't remember.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    Grapheneos is pretty solid
  - commoner 3y ago
    microG works well as a substitute for the Google Play Services client. I generally don't have issues with banking apps on microG, though people using apps for banks based in other regions might have different experiences. Navigation, music streaming, Microsoft Teams, Slack, rideshare, and public transit apps work flawlessly. Push messaging is fully functional. As a bonus, microG does not implement any of the advertising features in Google Play Services. https://microg.org https://microg.org Operating systems that have microG preinstalled include CalyxOS, /e/, and LineageOS for microG.
Zircom 3y ago
At least for me a lot of automation and workflow stuff I have just doesn't exist on iPhones. I make heavy use of buzzkill, taskr and iftt, and the first two have no equivalent on iOS and probably never will. Pretty sure home screen widgets are next to non-existent as well on iOS.
- catiopatio 3y ago
  Thanks for the informative answer. Frankly, it’s a shame that most consumers have to choose between either spyware-computer or privacy-preserving-consumption-console. That said, I simply can’t blame someone for considering an iPhone to be the default choice for the majority of consumers.
- belltaco 3y ago
  > I make heavy use of buzzkill, taskr and iftt What do you use them for? That sounds interesting.
  - Zircom 3y ago
    A bunch of stupid stuff really. There's janky series of actions I have set up where my phone detects when I get to my office building and sends a text triggers turning my computer on for me, signs in, and then runs a start up script(which starts all my programs and launches an RDP session as well, which has its own start up script as well that gets run) and then locks the screen again, so it's all ready when I sit down. Back when I played WoW I'd also use a similar system to launch the game and wait in the login queue on raid nights for me while I was driving home. My spouse sometimes will text me from upstairs when she needs something, but I work from the office 2 days a week but she never remembers(she has some memory issues...) so I have it set to send her a reminder that I'm not home the first time she texts me for the day, but doesnt mark the messages as read or dismiss the notification so I can still see what she sent and reply if I need to. Also have it set to replay the notification sounds/buzz for messages from her outside of work hours because I am bad at checking my phone and sometimes forget to text her back. It also stickies the notifications from her in the slide-down menu so I can't accidentally dismiss them without replying. Our oncall system at work has us dial into a phone tree and punch in some numbers to set it to yourself, I have my phone do it automatically for me. I have a specific camera shortcut that will automatically text my spouse any pictures taken for that specific session until the app is closed/exited, usually its pictures of our cats but also useful when she's taking pictures with my phone for whatever reason or if we're having someone take a photo of the two of us, saves the trouble of having to send it manually each time. Whenever the WiFI goes down at the house I have it set to turn my phone hotspot on, then send a text that triggers my computer to connect to the hotspot network, sign into the spectrum website and check for outages so I know what is broken.
wildrhythms 3y ago
>Apple does not spy on me There's something ironic to find this comment on a video of a former cop surrounded by other cops touting the surveillance features Apple's product offers exclusively.
- izzydata 3y ago
  Is it even true? It seems hard to believe Apple doesn't spy on people or sell information to advertisers.
  - interpol_p 3y ago
    As far as I am aware, they do not sell information to advertisers. Doing so would be a bad business move for them, anyway (ditching long term brand trust for short term profit?) On AirTag location privacy, from Apple's site [1]: > Only you can see where your AirTag is. Your location data and history are never stored on the AirTag itself. Devices that relay the location of your AirTag also stay anonymous, and that location data is encrypted every step of the way. So not even Apple knows the location of your AirTag or the identity of the device that helps find it. I don't think they're lying about this. [1] https://www.apple.com/airtag/ https://www.apple.com/airtag/
    - lstamour 3y ago
      Edit: I’m debating deleting this post. It doesn’t have any references to back it up, and I just realized that if the tracking network encrypts the location with the public key such that the private key is required to decrypt the location, it is indeed possible for Apple to not know where devices are because the decryption of the location might be done on your device rather than on Apple’s servers, if they wanted to. Original post follows: I haven’t read any white papers on how this works, but I’m going to call “slight BS” anyway. Technically, Apple knows the location of the AirTag, that’s how their network works. The payload of airtag data might be encrypted, but Apple also keeps the keys for your AirTags so that you don’t have to associate new AirTags with each Apple device you want to use Find My on. While I don’t doubt that Apple strictly reduces what information they log or identify about AirTags to literally the bare minimum that keeps the service running, it’s a bit ingenuous to suggest Apple doesn’t know. What I mean by this is Apple isn’t lying when they say they don’t know the location of your AirTag (until you use their app to look for it) but it is true they know the location of all AirTags synced to their network, they just don’t know which one is yours until you go looking for it. Encryption probably plays a role in that asymmetric encryption would allow Apple to not know any AirTag details until your devices provide the decryption key. A handshake could be involved too so that your device can’t decrypt the location of the tag without proving they own the associated encryption key. But presumably Apple has a way of issuing or remotely authorizing against such keys. It is likely the case that your password for your phone protects Apple from gaining access to the keys thus justifying the position that Apple doesn’t have access because they don’t have your keys. Apple would have to act maliciously with their software into order to break this system, and it’s not worth it for them to do so. I’m not saying they’re lying but they are simplifying things a bit.
smoldesu 3y ago
> Apple does not spy on me Apple can be compelled to spy on you[0]. > and does not sell my information to advertisers Apple is an advertiser. [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  They don't even have to be compelled, they can simply be asked to share users' private data.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    They can also use commercially-available hardware like the Greykey to bruteforce iPhone and Android logins without Apple or Google's permission whatsoever. Isn't modern technology fun?
  - catiopatio 3y ago
    Apple is very clear about what they have access to, and what they do not. They cannot share what they do not have, or do not have the encryption keys to.
- catiopatio 3y ago
  > Apple can be compelled to spy on you[0]. It’s dishonest to equate lawful warrants with Google’s targeted advertising and exploitation of our information. Furthermore, Apple is clear about what information they have access to, and what information they don’t, and have consistently, year-over-year, reduced the information they actually have access to. > Apple is an advertiser. This is another disingenuous false equivalency. Apple does not gather personal information from our devices for advertising, and always requires explicit opt-in before making use of any data provided to them through the use of their services.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > It’s dishonest to equate lawful warrants with Google’s targeted advertising and exploitation of our information. Is it? Google has not suffocated the AOSP. If you don't want their advertising or services, you can remove it. No such option exists on iOS, so you're effectively locked into an inherently insecure product. You can claim that you trust the parties with the backdoor key, but that doesn't change the fact that the key exists. In mainland China, that puts Apple in the awkward situation of complying with lawful warrants that are complicit in human rights violations. Trusting wholesome, benevolent government collaboration is not enough. Apple has to design a transparent and accountable security system if they want their privacy stance to look like something other than a theater scripted on whitepapers. > This is another disingenuous false equivalency. Apple is an advertiser, though. You cannot pretend like they don't also have a conflict of interest here. Not to mention, they're equally capricious on the service upsell - the in-OS advertising was one of the reasons I left their ecosystem in the first place.
rr808 3y ago
> $17.87 for 24 months. Yeah I'm too cheap to pay that much.
politelemon 3y ago
> Apple does not spy on me, and does not sell my information to advertisers. You have misunderstood privacy. It's not limited to selling of information. It's whether you control your own data. With Apple you certainly don't. You are a product either way.