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Have you spent much time in Utah? Off the top of my head I can’t think of an organization that could be considered an even distant second to the LDS church in t

Have you spent much time in Utah? Off the top of my head I can’t think of an organization that could be considered an even distant second to the LDS church in terms of influence over policies brought to and enacted by the elected officials in that state.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
It's a constitutional republic that got taken over by a 51% attack that, thanks in part to FPTP elections, they've leveraged into a supermajority.
- tristor 3y ago
  > It's a constitutional republic that got taken over by a 51% attack It's a state that was literally created to be a place for Mormons because they were a persecuted religious minority ran out of every other state and it was a huge desert wasteland nobody else wanted. It's only due to huge influxes of immigration, especially from the South, that Utah is... checks notes only 85% white and 60% Mormon. So it's like less of a 51% attack and more, business as usual and intended. If anything, the non-Mormons are going to soon be able to do a 51% attack and take Utah back, since Mormons are only 2% of the US population, and Californians are mass migrating to Utah now that people realized you can build in the desert with modern technology.
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    Persecuted because Mormons refused to respect American laws. Yes if someone starts a cult that does illegal things they don't get to claim religious freedom or cry about persecution.
    - friend_and_foe 3y ago
      What laws would those be exactly?
      - QuarterReptile 3y ago
        polygamy? Take a moment to think about history of US statehood. The Mormons, chased off Eastern settlements for their polygamy, settled most of the mountain West, declared governance, then watched big mining operations all around them get cut off from their territory and turned into full-fledged states, while they were not admitted to the union for decades. It was a time of shared culture that is unrecognizable from where we stand today, and they absolutely didn't want to give statehood to polygamists...
        friend_and_foe 3y ago
        Polygamy was federally outlawed precisely for the purpose of (dare I say) oppressing Mormons. It was not the law of the land until well after the migration to Deseret and the first attempt at statehood.
      - cogitoergofutuo 3y ago
        https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/mormon.asp https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/mormon.asp
        friend_and_foe 3y ago
        > Violence broke out in 1833 as the “Old Settlers” under the guise of “extra-legal” justice took the law into their own hands. I'm seeing no mention of Mormons breaking laws, the only mentions of law breaking references other people breaking laws to persecute Mormons. The governor of Missouri's declares that they are to be expelled or exterminated (!!!), the mobs attacked them and killed them, no mention anywhere in your link of Mormons breaking any laws. Note that I do not take the position that Mormons broke no laws, I'd just like to know what laws they broke, and particularly what federal laws they broke, since my reply is to the claim that they broke American laws and not of some specific state.
        cogitoergofutuo 3y ago
        > When the Mormons attacked a duly authorized militia under the belief it was an anti-Mormon mob, Missouri’s governor, Lilburn Boggs, ordered the Saints expelled from the state, or “exterminated,

LeifCarrotson 3y ago

It's a constitutional republic that got taken over by a 51% attack that, thanks in part to FPTP elections, they've leveraged into a supermajority.

tristor 3y ago
> It's a constitutional republic that got taken over by a 51% attack It's a state that was literally created to be a place for Mormons because they were a persecuted religious minority ran out of every other state and it was a huge desert wasteland nobody else wanted. It's only due to huge influxes of immigration, especially from the South, that Utah is... checks notes only 85% white and 60% Mormon. So it's like less of a 51% attack and more, business as usual and intended. If anything, the non-Mormons are going to soon be able to do a 51% attack and take Utah back, since Mormons are only 2% of the US population, and Californians are mass migrating to Utah now that people realized you can build in the desert with modern technology.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  Persecuted because Mormons refused to respect American laws. Yes if someone starts a cult that does illegal things they don't get to claim religious freedom or cry about persecution.
  - friend_and_foe 3y ago
    What laws would those be exactly?
    - QuarterReptile 3y ago
      polygamy? Take a moment to think about history of US statehood. The Mormons, chased off Eastern settlements for their polygamy, settled most of the mountain West, declared governance, then watched big mining operations all around them get cut off from their territory and turned into full-fledged states, while they were not admitted to the union for decades. It was a time of shared culture that is unrecognizable from where we stand today, and they absolutely didn't want to give statehood to polygamists...
      - friend_and_foe 3y ago
        Polygamy was federally outlawed precisely for the purpose of (dare I say) oppressing Mormons. It was not the law of the land until well after the migration to Deseret and the first attempt at statehood.
    - cogitoergofutuo 3y ago
      https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/mormon.asp https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/mormon.asp
      - friend_and_foe 3y ago
        > Violence broke out in 1833 as the “Old Settlers” under the guise of “extra-legal” justice took the law into their own hands. I'm seeing no mention of Mormons breaking laws, the only mentions of law breaking references other people breaking laws to persecute Mormons. The governor of Missouri's declares that they are to be expelled or exterminated (!!!), the mobs attacked them and killed them, no mention anywhere in your link of Mormons breaking any laws. Note that I do not take the position that Mormons broke no laws, I'd just like to know what laws they broke, and particularly what federal laws they broke, since my reply is to the claim that they broke American laws and not of some specific state.
        cogitoergofutuo 3y ago
        > When the Mormons attacked a duly authorized militia under the belief it was an anti-Mormon mob, Missouri’s governor, Lilburn Boggs, ordered the Saints expelled from the state, or “exterminated,