5 ms·

Hyperbole much? Comparing Utah to the Middle East is a bit disingenuous.

qzx_pierri 3y ago
[flagged]
tristor 3y ago
Well, both regions are deserts occupied in majority by religious zealots of a single ethnic group that believe in polygamy and their economy is primarily driven by natural resource exports (oil for the Middle East; gold, other metals, and agricultural products for Utah). I don't think the comparison is that far off. Utah is 85% white and 60% Mormon, so... The only reason that Utah isn't whiter and more Mormon is due to all the immigrant workers, just like the Middle East...
- ssnistfajen 3y ago
  The LDS church has prohibited polygamy for well over a century now: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-latter-day-saints-and-the-practice-of-plural-marriage https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la... LGBT rights in Utah is also middle of the road among U.S. states. The LDS church also supported the recent Respect for Marriage Act unlike many other conservative Christian organizations. Your other points about climate and economy are extremely generic and not really a strong argument for why Utah more similar to the Middle East than the rest of the US. >Utah is 85% white and 60% Mormon, so... Maine is ~95% white and ~60% Christian, so what's your point? >The only reason that Utah isn't whiter and more Mormon is due to all the immigrant workers Replace "Utah" with "United States" and "Mormon" with "Christian", then it remains a true statement for the entirety of your country's existence. The United States is far more culturally homogenous than most Americans like you think it is. Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again.
  - tristor 3y ago
    > Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again. I've extensively traveled the world, to more than 70 countries, and have spent years of my life living abroad. The United States is far more diverse and heterogeneous than most other countries in the world, contrary to your statements. Some subsets of the US are regionally /very/ homogeneous, however, which is part of my point. It would help to start thinking of the US for what it is, a federation of 50 states, not a single entity with a single mind. There is a high level of diversity within the US, but in each state, there tends to be a balance point towards some particular dominant culture, which can include religion, and in the case of Utah was explicitly created to include religion (Utah was founded to give the Mormons a home). > The LDS church has prohibited polygamy for well over a century now: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la... Officially. Unofficially, polygamy is still widely practiced in Utah as part of the official doctrine of FDLS, which is the breakaway Fundamental sect of the LDS Church. The FDLS has recently gained more prominence, which lead to Utah making a surprising reversal recently by effectively decriminalizing polygamy, something that was for a long time a felony in Utah in order to follow LDS Church doctrine that banned polygamy as part of the split from FDLS. FDLS exists almost entirely within the state of Utah however, and the words of the Book of Mormon on this topic are literally plainly in black and white. Technically speaking, the Quran heavily restricts polygamy in Al-Nisa', 4:3 and clarified in Al-Nisa', 4:129. In practice however, polygamy is widely practiced in the Middle East and is a core part of the way in which many people practice Islam and has had no significant actions taken against it. It's specifically a core tenet of the Wahabi sect of Islam, which is the dominant sect in the modern Middle East (although other sects generally reject polygamy).
    - ssnistfajen 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - tristor 3y ago
        > [X] Doubt My multiple full passports say otherwise. > Shame on all those money you wasted travelling then because you clearly didn't make good use of it. I'm happy with my experiences. I'm not sure what parts of the world you went to, but most of the world is /very/ homogeneous. There are parts of the world that are more diverse than the US, on some variable, for instance pretty much anywhere in Africa is more ethnically and linguistically diverse than anywhere in the rest of the world. But in the mix of things, the US is not the most diverse country, but is very much near the top. Canada is more diverse than the US, as an example, but the US is more diverse than essentially any country in Europe, any country in South America except perhaps Brazil, and most countries in Asia. It somewhat depends on what you mean by "diversity"? But the US has a mix of ethnic groups, religious groups, and cultural groups, as well as languages. You only don't see it because of assimilation over generations, but each of the groups leaves their mark on those regions in the US.
- bart_spoon 3y ago
  Just about the only point you made that was accurate was about Utah being a desert.
computerfriend 3y ago
They didn't, they compared the United States to the Middle East (with the suggestion that they are very different).
jackmott42 3y ago
Not at all.

[flagged]

Well, both regions are deserts occupied in majority by religious zealots of a single ethnic group that believe in polygamy and their economy is primarily driven by natural resource exports (oil for the Middle East; gold, other metals, and agricultural products for Utah). I don't think the comparison is that far off. Utah is 85% white and 60% Mormon, so... The only reason that Utah isn't whiter and more Mormon is due to all the immigrant workers, just like the Middle East...

ssnistfajen 3y ago
The LDS church has prohibited polygamy for well over a century now: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-latter-day-saints-and-the-practice-of-plural-marriage https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la... LGBT rights in Utah is also middle of the road among U.S. states. The LDS church also supported the recent Respect for Marriage Act unlike many other conservative Christian organizations. Your other points about climate and economy are extremely generic and not really a strong argument for why Utah more similar to the Middle East than the rest of the US. >Utah is 85% white and 60% Mormon, so... Maine is ~95% white and ~60% Christian, so what's your point? >The only reason that Utah isn't whiter and more Mormon is due to all the immigrant workers Replace "Utah" with "United States" and "Mormon" with "Christian", then it remains a true statement for the entirety of your country's existence. The United States is far more culturally homogenous than most Americans like you think it is. Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again.
- tristor 3y ago
  > Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again. I've extensively traveled the world, to more than 70 countries, and have spent years of my life living abroad. The United States is far more diverse and heterogeneous than most other countries in the world, contrary to your statements. Some subsets of the US are regionally /very/ homogeneous, however, which is part of my point. It would help to start thinking of the US for what it is, a federation of 50 states, not a single entity with a single mind. There is a high level of diversity within the US, but in each state, there tends to be a balance point towards some particular dominant culture, which can include religion, and in the case of Utah was explicitly created to include religion (Utah was founded to give the Mormons a home). > The LDS church has prohibited polygamy for well over a century now: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la... Officially. Unofficially, polygamy is still widely practiced in Utah as part of the official doctrine of FDLS, which is the breakaway Fundamental sect of the LDS Church. The FDLS has recently gained more prominence, which lead to Utah making a surprising reversal recently by effectively decriminalizing polygamy, something that was for a long time a felony in Utah in order to follow LDS Church doctrine that banned polygamy as part of the split from FDLS. FDLS exists almost entirely within the state of Utah however, and the words of the Book of Mormon on this topic are literally plainly in black and white. Technically speaking, the Quran heavily restricts polygamy in Al-Nisa', 4:3 and clarified in Al-Nisa', 4:129. In practice however, polygamy is widely practiced in the Middle East and is a core part of the way in which many people practice Islam and has had no significant actions taken against it. It's specifically a core tenet of the Wahabi sect of Islam, which is the dominant sect in the modern Middle East (although other sects generally reject polygamy).
  - ssnistfajen 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - tristor 3y ago
      > [X] Doubt My multiple full passports say otherwise. > Shame on all those money you wasted travelling then because you clearly didn't make good use of it. I'm happy with my experiences. I'm not sure what parts of the world you went to, but most of the world is /very/ homogeneous. There are parts of the world that are more diverse than the US, on some variable, for instance pretty much anywhere in Africa is more ethnically and linguistically diverse than anywhere in the rest of the world. But in the mix of things, the US is not the most diverse country, but is very much near the top. Canada is more diverse than the US, as an example, but the US is more diverse than essentially any country in Europe, any country in South America except perhaps Brazil, and most countries in Asia. It somewhat depends on what you mean by "diversity"? But the US has a mix of ethnic groups, religious groups, and cultural groups, as well as languages. You only don't see it because of assimilation over generations, but each of the groups leaves their mark on those regions in the US.
bart_spoon 3y ago
Just about the only point you made that was accurate was about Utah being a desert.

computerfriend 3y ago

They didn't, they compared the United States to the Middle East (with the suggestion that they are very different).

jackmott42 3y ago

Not at all.