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It's a myth that "prohibition doesn't work" which is one of the roots of this type of thinking. It does actually work (e.g. reduce alcoholism, increase health)

by chippy 3y ago

It's a myth that "prohibition doesn't work" which is one of the roots of this type of thinking. It does actually work (e.g. reduce alcoholism, increase health) but it also leads to the increase in organized crime which became much more of a problem.

mbs159 3y ago
The increase of organized crime and the spawning of a giant black market do not seem to be indicators that prohibition "worked". Also, during prohibition it was more efficient to smuggle stronger alcoholic drinks due to the fact that a bottle of whiskey can hold more standard drinks than a bottle of beer (30 ml whiskey ~ 285 ml beer). From what I red in Johann Hari's Chasing the Scream [1], this seemed to contribute to spirits becoming more available than lighter alcoholic beverages. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasing_the_Scream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasing_the_Scream
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  Muslims have been very successfull in prohibiton of all kinds of drugs and alcohol since 15 centuries. There are clearly more factors at play than what the law says. What do you believe will happen if you drink alcohol in secret, out of range of the eyes of the State? Muslims believe this will still have consequences in afterlife. Atheists don't. Many Christians believe they'll be saved and forgiven by God as long as they are Christian. > A 2012 study suggested that belief in hell decreases crime rates, while belief in heaven increases them, and indicated that these correlations were stronger than other correlates like national wealth or income inequality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_correlations_of_criminal_behaviour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_correlations_of_cr...
  - mbs159 3y ago
    I don't have the data to back this up, but from what I've heard it is not unusual to drink alcohol in some predominantly Muslim countries like Turkey. Despite that, I agree with you that there are definitely more factors at play than just the law.
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      I live in Turkey, probably the most heavily and forcefully secularized muslim country in the world (Ataturk killed half a million population for his secular reforms according to some sources, Islamic alphabet got abolished, western dress code literally became law and religious clothing got prohibited, religion schools closed, religious scholars executed and prosecuted and Adhan was banned for 18 years). It's free to drink here, but drugs are banned. Only a very small minority drinks alcohol in my region, I have no relatives I know of that ever drank. Drugs/weed/marijuana are horrible things no one ever wants in my entire social circle, I don't think I have ever seen a user of such substances in my entire life IRL. Western and some coastal cities drink more and there's more drug activity too (and they're less religious too).

by chippy 3y ago

mbs159 3y ago

The increase of organized crime and the spawning of a giant black market do not seem to be indicators that prohibition "worked". Also, during prohibition it was more efficient to smuggle stronger alcoholic drinks due to the fact that a bottle of whiskey can hold more standard drinks than a bottle of beer (30 ml whiskey ~ 285 ml beer). From what I red in Johann Hari's Chasing the Scream [1], this seemed to contribute to spirits becoming more available than lighter alcoholic beverages. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasing_the_Scream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasing_the_Scream

Aerbil313 3y ago
Muslims have been very successfull in prohibiton of all kinds of drugs and alcohol since 15 centuries. There are clearly more factors at play than what the law says. What do you believe will happen if you drink alcohol in secret, out of range of the eyes of the State? Muslims believe this will still have consequences in afterlife. Atheists don't. Many Christians believe they'll be saved and forgiven by God as long as they are Christian. > A 2012 study suggested that belief in hell decreases crime rates, while belief in heaven increases them, and indicated that these correlations were stronger than other correlates like national wealth or income inequality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_correlations_of_criminal_behaviour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_correlations_of_cr...
- mbs159 3y ago
  I don't have the data to back this up, but from what I've heard it is not unusual to drink alcohol in some predominantly Muslim countries like Turkey. Despite that, I agree with you that there are definitely more factors at play than just the law.
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    I live in Turkey, probably the most heavily and forcefully secularized muslim country in the world (Ataturk killed half a million population for his secular reforms according to some sources, Islamic alphabet got abolished, western dress code literally became law and religious clothing got prohibited, religion schools closed, religious scholars executed and prosecuted and Adhan was banned for 18 years). It's free to drink here, but drugs are banned. Only a very small minority drinks alcohol in my region, I have no relatives I know of that ever drank. Drugs/weed/marijuana are horrible things no one ever wants in my entire social circle, I don't think I have ever seen a user of such substances in my entire life IRL. Western and some coastal cities drink more and there's more drug activity too (and they're less religious too).