4 ms·

Way to regurgitate a tired argument. Kids are addicted to porn before they’re old enough to drive these days and it’s messes them up for life (see: the incel m

Way to regurgitate a tired argument. Kids are addicted to porn before they’re old enough to drive these days and it’s messes them up for life (see: the incel movement.) Something has to be done about corporations that profit off of showing literal children hardcore porn. “Talking to your kids” doesn’t work when multinational corporations are incentivized to addict them for ad revenue.

scarface74 4y ago
If only most internet connected devices came with parental controls…
femiagbabiaka 4y ago
Blocking access to pornographic websites is the responsibility of parents or other responsible adults absent a federal ID verification system that would enable websites to reliably block kids (similar to S. Korea). You can justify almost any amount of censorship based on "thinking about the kids". But our society is built for more than just the first 20% of human life. The proliferation of this argument that everything from the internet to IRL bookstores need to be censored to protect children starts from a good place, but it jumped the shark a long time ago.
tedivm 4y ago
What evidence do you have that the incel movement is driven by pornography? I always attributed it to the recruitment efforts of the alt-right and other misogynistic groups.
- softfalcon 4y ago
  In my experience, you are correct. The incel movement (and others like it) is a targeted attempt to enflame naive and susceptible target(s) to a polarized view of the world. This is beneficial to the manipulators for various reasons, be they financial or political.
- bradlys 4y ago
  Guys, the incel “movement” is just dudes not getting laid and whining about it. It’s as old as time. They just happen to be on the Internet now and we’ve atomized society to the point where they’re super common. Most everyone is an incel until they’re not. After all - there’s a point where you want sex and aren’t getting it. Thus, an incel.
  - George83728 4y ago
    I think you're underselling the problem a bit. Before the internet, dudes who whine about not getting laid were generally not able to organize effectively into social echo chambers, at least to the same extent as today. In 'meatspace', people are exposed to other people who have a wide array of experiences, including older more experienced men who tell the young incels to quit bitching and go talk to women. Online, in incel echo chambers, such voices of reason and wisdom are expelled. The incels then spiral into unchallenged worldviews that alienate them from the general public, isolating them from women and everybody else even more than they were before.
    - bradlys 4y ago
      Idk man - we've got all kinds of crazy ass ideas from back in the past. The idea of echo chambers seems to be way more easy to come by when you're living in a small town in the middle of nowhere and that's all the info you've got to go on. The internet is big and pushes all kinds of crazy shit your way. Nowadays, you're constantly pushed all kinds of random shit. The usual incel rhetoric that I see is - there's not many women to talk to. Which is mostly attributed to the decline of social spaces due to again - whole atomized society stuff and late stage capitalism, yadda yadda. (If you haven't heard about it yet - just read some robert putnam)
  - kennethrc 4y ago
    Yup. <cue the "How are sex and air alike?" joke>
softfalcon 4y ago
Honestly, I think you both have a valid concern. However, these two views are not mutually exclusive. I think you can have both the overly aggressive censoring of nudity and also at the same time have corporations aggressively pushing porn onto anyone and everyone for profit. In my opinion, you could pretty clearly enact policy to resolve both of these issues without making it a one or the other argument or saying "something has to be done". Why does it have to only be one "something"? Could it not be two different "somethings" that target each issue specifically?
throwaway743 4y ago
Please take your nofap zealotry elsewhere.
throwaway987q 4y ago
"Incel movement" For the love of god. It is like calling poor people "powerty movement". Lost your arm? How dare you to belong to "one arm movement"? Don't you know there was was one arm rober with vad political views? No one chooses their life circumstances. Too poor ("just learn to code bruh!" (did)) and not good looking enough ("just work out bruh!" (tried did not grow my missing body part back)) to attract woman for one night stand in country with banned sex work? Well you must belong to some radical political party or be poisoned by porn!
drdaeman 4y ago
This doesn't sound right. While pornography certainly has impacts on immature minds (kids or young adults), I suspect it's rather in a completely opposite area than you've pointed out - like teenage pregnancies or kids engaging in various inappropriate sexual behaviors. I'm no expert, but I'd say incels' social ineptitude seem to come from personality traits and [mis]expectations that aren't that frequently portrayed in pornography. I'd say it's various media with unrealistic portrayal of romantic relationships that should be attributed (and that's typically not porn). And, obviously, strong meme-affirming effects of echo chambers, the bane of our times, but that's a whole different topic. I don't believe your last statement either. Where - except for anti-porn propaganda statements - have you seen any large adult industry corporation intentionally targeting children? The article in question clearly indicates that virtually everyone in that whole industry want kids to stay away from their businesses, because they only cause trouble. If someone invents a way to keep kids off the porn sites without having any negative impact on adult audience, I'm sure they're gonna celebrate that person as a savior of the industry. Those companies surely have put a blind eye to the problem, but I find the claim of adult industry actually targeting children to be outrageous. What makes me thing so is that I highly doubt the incentive. On the contrary, there's at least one very cynical reason to still say there isn't such incentive: kids aren't paying. Parents may tolerate them spending money on some in-game cosmetics, but surely they won't approve if they spot a porn purchase on a statement. Porn companies have enough problems making profits from adults, so them considering kids as a target audience sounds insane not just from a moral standpoint but from a business perspective as well.

scarface74 4y ago

If only most internet connected devices came with parental controls…

femiagbabiaka 4y ago

Blocking access to pornographic websites is the responsibility of parents or other responsible adults absent a federal ID verification system that would enable websites to reliably block kids (similar to S. Korea). You can justify almost any amount of censorship based on "thinking about the kids". But our society is built for more than just the first 20% of human life. The proliferation of this argument that everything from the internet to IRL bookstores need to be censored to protect children starts from a good place, but it jumped the shark a long time ago.

tedivm 4y ago

What evidence do you have that the incel movement is driven by pornography? I always attributed it to the recruitment efforts of the alt-right and other misogynistic groups.

softfalcon 4y ago
In my experience, you are correct. The incel movement (and others like it) is a targeted attempt to enflame naive and susceptible target(s) to a polarized view of the world. This is beneficial to the manipulators for various reasons, be they financial or political.
bradlys 4y ago
Guys, the incel “movement” is just dudes not getting laid and whining about it. It’s as old as time. They just happen to be on the Internet now and we’ve atomized society to the point where they’re super common. Most everyone is an incel until they’re not. After all - there’s a point where you want sex and aren’t getting it. Thus, an incel.
- George83728 4y ago
  I think you're underselling the problem a bit. Before the internet, dudes who whine about not getting laid were generally not able to organize effectively into social echo chambers, at least to the same extent as today. In 'meatspace', people are exposed to other people who have a wide array of experiences, including older more experienced men who tell the young incels to quit bitching and go talk to women. Online, in incel echo chambers, such voices of reason and wisdom are expelled. The incels then spiral into unchallenged worldviews that alienate them from the general public, isolating them from women and everybody else even more than they were before.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    Idk man - we've got all kinds of crazy ass ideas from back in the past. The idea of echo chambers seems to be way more easy to come by when you're living in a small town in the middle of nowhere and that's all the info you've got to go on. The internet is big and pushes all kinds of crazy shit your way. Nowadays, you're constantly pushed all kinds of random shit. The usual incel rhetoric that I see is - there's not many women to talk to. Which is mostly attributed to the decline of social spaces due to again - whole atomized society stuff and late stage capitalism, yadda yadda. (If you haven't heard about it yet - just read some robert putnam)
- kennethrc 4y ago
  Yup. <cue the "How are sex and air alike?" joke>

softfalcon 4y ago

Honestly, I think you both have a valid concern. However, these two views are not mutually exclusive. I think you can have both the overly aggressive censoring of nudity and also at the same time have corporations aggressively pushing porn onto anyone and everyone for profit. In my opinion, you could pretty clearly enact policy to resolve both of these issues without making it a one or the other argument or saying "something has to be done". Why does it have to only be one "something"? Could it not be two different "somethings" that target each issue specifically?

throwaway743 4y ago

Please take your nofap zealotry elsewhere.

throwaway987q 4y ago

"Incel movement" For the love of god. It is like calling poor people "powerty movement". Lost your arm? How dare you to belong to "one arm movement"? Don't you know there was was one arm rober with vad political views? No one chooses their life circumstances. Too poor ("just learn to code bruh!" (did)) and not good looking enough ("just work out bruh!" (tried did not grow my missing body part back)) to attract woman for one night stand in country with banned sex work? Well you must belong to some radical political party or be poisoned by porn!

drdaeman 4y ago

This doesn't sound right. While pornography certainly has impacts on immature minds (kids or young adults), I suspect it's rather in a completely opposite area than you've pointed out - like teenage pregnancies or kids engaging in various inappropriate sexual behaviors. I'm no expert, but I'd say incels' social ineptitude seem to come from personality traits and [mis]expectations that aren't that frequently portrayed in pornography. I'd say it's various media with unrealistic portrayal of romantic relationships that should be attributed (and that's typically not porn). And, obviously, strong meme-affirming effects of echo chambers, the bane of our times, but that's a whole different topic. I don't believe your last statement either. Where - except for anti-porn propaganda statements - have you seen any large adult industry corporation intentionally targeting children? The article in question clearly indicates that virtually everyone in that whole industry want kids to stay away from their businesses, because they only cause trouble. If someone invents a way to keep kids off the porn sites without having any negative impact on adult audience, I'm sure they're gonna celebrate that person as a savior of the industry. Those companies surely have put a blind eye to the problem, but I find the claim of adult industry actually targeting children to be outrageous. What makes me thing so is that I highly doubt the incentive. On the contrary, there's at least one very cynical reason to still say there isn't such incentive: kids aren't paying. Parents may tolerate them spending money on some in-game cosmetics, but surely they won't approve if they spot a porn purchase on a statement. Porn companies have enough problems making profits from adults, so them considering kids as a target audience sounds insane not just from a moral standpoint but from a business perspective as well.