4 ms·

It makes no sense to me that every physical store in a state must check IDs if you want to buy porn or alcohol, but porn websites can just let anyone in without

It makes no sense to me that every physical store in a state must check IDs if you want to buy porn or alcohol, but porn websites can just let anyone in without checking ID. There are legitimate privacy concerns with checking ID online, but I think it’s way past time that the government does something to restrict the supply of porn to minors via the internet. The same with social media. The evidence that social media causes harm to minors is clear and compelling.

mhh__ 3y ago
Does it have to be the government? Isn't this what parental controls are for
- woeirua 3y ago
  Utah hasn’t said what the solution has to be, just that age verification needs to take place. I think the market should find the best solution here.
  - juve1996 3y ago
    The market has - exiting the market is the best solution right now.
- belorn 3y ago
  You do not need it to be the government to provide a protocol for identification. In Sweden they already done this by offloading it to banks, which can be seen as a benefit or drawback based on who you ask. Personally I would like to see something like letsencrypt to take the role of central identification authority, with multiple open protocols available to prove identification. Neither governments or banks should be the single source for identity. Trust is a hard problem to solve with technology, and neither government nor for-profit organizations tend to be very good at it.
Beaver117 3y ago
There are about a gazillion porn websites and legislation only affects the top like 3 of them. Completely pointless unless you have an entire surveillance system like China's firewall
- woeirua 3y ago
  A lot of those porn sites also are not free ( so automatically age restricted). PornHub is somewhat unique in that it’s so large and totally free.
  - least 3y ago
    It's unique in that it is as close to public facing as a pornography website gets, but it's not unique whatsoever in being large and free.
  - eatsyourtacos 3y ago
    >PornHub is somewhat unique in that it’s so large and totally free. Uh.. no.. And how about you just go to google/bing whatever and search for some porn. It will come right up. You are completely bonkers if you think free porn is somewhat unique to pornhub.
    - woeirua 3y ago
      I never said that. I said that its unique in how wide its reach is. Yes, you can find porn on Google if you turn off SafeSearch. Yes there are other PornTube sites out there. But if you dig deep enough I bet you'd find that most of them are owned by MindGeek too. MindGeek has the lion's share of the market right now by far.
- naravara 3y ago
  You don't need a surveillance system you just need a framework for people to sue for damages.
ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
I checked wikipedia at the age of 11 (21yrs ago) and learned every kind of fetish in existence. There are enough ways for parents to educate and limit access to things.
- woeirua 3y ago
  Reading a description is very different than seeing and listening to simulated rape or sexual assault.
3np 3y ago
> It makes no sense to me that every physical store in a state must check IDs if you want to buy porn Right?
- woeirua 3y ago
  Your position is that a 12 year old should be able to buy any porn that they want?
  - 3np 3y ago
    No.
whalesalad 3y ago
this is absolutely not the job of the government. you are responsible for your kids. this is just inviting more and more police state big brother bureaucratic bullshit and less rights, less freedom.
- woeirua 3y ago
  Then why do we have laws restricting the access of minors to various goods in stores? By the way, those laws are broadly popular.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    People don't (generally) want to stand next to a 13 year old while looking at what porn/sex toys to buy, but beyond that it's pretty much the same argument. Alcohol/drug sale restrictions are probably the more interesting half but I'm not so sure drugs and media are fungible. After all, there are valid places to draw the line beyond "no government involvement on anything whatsoever" and "government involvement on everything moral because we did it on one thing".
    - woeirua 3y ago
      > People don't (generally) want to stand next to a 13 year old while looking at what porn/sex toys to buy, but beyond that it's pretty much the same argument That is not why people don't want kids in sex shops.
      - zamadatix 3y ago
        Correct, it does, however, make it extremely hard to find many willing to argue against status quo though.
Aachen 3y ago
I've never seen an adult store check age in the Netherlands. Children just aren't interested until they're ready for it. I assume a store owner is legally in the clear when serving a five year old, even if in practice they would ask for their caretaker's phone number and send them home. Is that actually required and enforced in the USA?
- woeirua 3y ago
  Yes.
  - Aachen 3y ago
    Odd. Well, I suppose you're right that's unequal requirements in an equal situation, though I'd propose the solution is to remove that law rather than extending it.
eatsyourtacos 3y ago
>It makes no sense to me that every physical store in a state must check IDs if you want to buy porn or alcohol, but porn websites can just let anyone in without checking ID. So.. what, you have to enter a license number or a picture of a license to let people into a porn website? How does that prove anything other than someone has access to a license number/picture? >There are legitimate privacy concerns with checking ID online, but I think it’s way past time that the government does something to restrict the supply of porn to minors via the internet. First... how? Second.. I sure as shit don't want that. Most people don't want that. Mostly religious nutjobs do, and politicians pretend like they care just to keep on good terms with religious nuts. >The evidence that social media causes harm to minors is clear and compelling. I'm not advocating for social media here- but no one being objective about the subject would ever speak that way. You obviously have a "PROTECT THE CHILDREN!" mentality and want to legislate everything with no respect to anything else. At least just be straight forward instead of trying to make silly arguments.
- woeirua 3y ago
  > So.. what, you have to enter a license number or a picture of a license to let people into a porn website? How does that prove anything other than someone has access to a license number/picture? It's still a barrier to entry and will stop some kids. Sure, kids can still get fake IDs or use their parents so this wont stop everyone but no law ever will stop everyone. > First... how? Don't know. Let's let the people who have the most interest here figure out a workable way around this. > Second.. I sure as shit don't want that. Most people don't want that. Mostly religious nutjobs do, and politicians pretend like they care just to keep on good terms with religious nuts. You may not. But I'm not a religious nut job, in fact I'm a frequent user of online porn and have for almost 20 years now. That said, I think I'm mature enough now to recognize how fucked up a lot of stuff online is. And now that I have kids, I can see that the status quo is probably not where we want to be on this issue. Not necessarily for my kids (I can put strong content filtering on my networks), but for other people who aren't nearly as tech savvy. > I'm not advocating for social media here- but no one being objective about the subject would ever speak that way. You obviously have a "PROTECT THE CHILDREN!" mentality and want to legislate everything with no respect to anything else. At least just be straight forward instead of trying to make silly arguments. Looks pretty compelling to me: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3919760 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3919760

mhh__ 3y ago

Does it have to be the government? Isn't this what parental controls are for

woeirua 3y ago
Utah hasn’t said what the solution has to be, just that age verification needs to take place. I think the market should find the best solution here.
- juve1996 3y ago
  The market has - exiting the market is the best solution right now.
belorn 3y ago
You do not need it to be the government to provide a protocol for identification. In Sweden they already done this by offloading it to banks, which can be seen as a benefit or drawback based on who you ask. Personally I would like to see something like letsencrypt to take the role of central identification authority, with multiple open protocols available to prove identification. Neither governments or banks should be the single source for identity. Trust is a hard problem to solve with technology, and neither government nor for-profit organizations tend to be very good at it.

Beaver117 3y ago

There are about a gazillion porn websites and legislation only affects the top like 3 of them. Completely pointless unless you have an entire surveillance system like China's firewall

woeirua 3y ago
A lot of those porn sites also are not free ( so automatically age restricted). PornHub is somewhat unique in that it’s so large and totally free.
- least 3y ago
  It's unique in that it is as close to public facing as a pornography website gets, but it's not unique whatsoever in being large and free.
- eatsyourtacos 3y ago
  >PornHub is somewhat unique in that it’s so large and totally free. Uh.. no.. And how about you just go to google/bing whatever and search for some porn. It will come right up. You are completely bonkers if you think free porn is somewhat unique to pornhub.
  - woeirua 3y ago
    I never said that. I said that its unique in how wide its reach is. Yes, you can find porn on Google if you turn off SafeSearch. Yes there are other PornTube sites out there. But if you dig deep enough I bet you'd find that most of them are owned by MindGeek too. MindGeek has the lion's share of the market right now by far.
naravara 3y ago
You don't need a surveillance system you just need a framework for people to sue for damages.

ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago

I checked wikipedia at the age of 11 (21yrs ago) and learned every kind of fetish in existence. There are enough ways for parents to educate and limit access to things.

woeirua 3y ago
Reading a description is very different than seeing and listening to simulated rape or sexual assault.

3np 3y ago

> It makes no sense to me that every physical store in a state must check IDs if you want to buy porn Right?

woeirua 3y ago
Your position is that a 12 year old should be able to buy any porn that they want?
- 3np 3y ago
  No.

whalesalad 3y ago

this is absolutely not the job of the government. you are responsible for your kids. this is just inviting more and more police state big brother bureaucratic bullshit and less rights, less freedom.

woeirua 3y ago
Then why do we have laws restricting the access of minors to various goods in stores? By the way, those laws are broadly popular.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  People don't (generally) want to stand next to a 13 year old while looking at what porn/sex toys to buy, but beyond that it's pretty much the same argument. Alcohol/drug sale restrictions are probably the more interesting half but I'm not so sure drugs and media are fungible. After all, there are valid places to draw the line beyond "no government involvement on anything whatsoever" and "government involvement on everything moral because we did it on one thing".
  - woeirua 3y ago
    > People don't (generally) want to stand next to a 13 year old while looking at what porn/sex toys to buy, but beyond that it's pretty much the same argument That is not why people don't want kids in sex shops.
    - zamadatix 3y ago
      Correct, it does, however, make it extremely hard to find many willing to argue against status quo though.

Aachen 3y ago

I've never seen an adult store check age in the Netherlands. Children just aren't interested until they're ready for it. I assume a store owner is legally in the clear when serving a five year old, even if in practice they would ask for their caretaker's phone number and send them home. Is that actually required and enforced in the USA?

woeirua 3y ago
Yes.
- Aachen 3y ago
  Odd. Well, I suppose you're right that's unequal requirements in an equal situation, though I'd propose the solution is to remove that law rather than extending it.

eatsyourtacos 3y ago

>It makes no sense to me that every physical store in a state must check IDs if you want to buy porn or alcohol, but porn websites can just let anyone in without checking ID. So.. what, you have to enter a license number or a picture of a license to let people into a porn website? How does that prove anything other than someone has access to a license number/picture? >There are legitimate privacy concerns with checking ID online, but I think it’s way past time that the government does something to restrict the supply of porn to minors via the internet. First... how? Second.. I sure as shit don't want that. Most people don't want that. Mostly religious nutjobs do, and politicians pretend like they care just to keep on good terms with religious nuts. >The evidence that social media causes harm to minors is clear and compelling. I'm not advocating for social media here- but no one being objective about the subject would ever speak that way. You obviously have a "PROTECT THE CHILDREN!" mentality and want to legislate everything with no respect to anything else. At least just be straight forward instead of trying to make silly arguments.

woeirua 3y ago
> So.. what, you have to enter a license number or a picture of a license to let people into a porn website? How does that prove anything other than someone has access to a license number/picture? It's still a barrier to entry and will stop some kids. Sure, kids can still get fake IDs or use their parents so this wont stop everyone but no law ever will stop everyone. > First... how? Don't know. Let's let the people who have the most interest here figure out a workable way around this. > Second.. I sure as shit don't want that. Most people don't want that. Mostly religious nutjobs do, and politicians pretend like they care just to keep on good terms with religious nuts. You may not. But I'm not a religious nut job, in fact I'm a frequent user of online porn and have for almost 20 years now. That said, I think I'm mature enough now to recognize how fucked up a lot of stuff online is. And now that I have kids, I can see that the status quo is probably not where we want to be on this issue. Not necessarily for my kids (I can put strong content filtering on my networks), but for other people who aren't nearly as tech savvy. > I'm not advocating for social media here- but no one being objective about the subject would ever speak that way. You obviously have a "PROTECT THE CHILDREN!" mentality and want to legislate everything with no respect to anything else. At least just be straight forward instead of trying to make silly arguments. Looks pretty compelling to me: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3919760 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3919760