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Every time this topic comes up, I see a bunch of comments here in HN claiming that H-1B should pretty much be abolished, and/or visa holders should be returning

Every time this topic comes up, I see a bunch of comments here in HN claiming that H-1B should pretty much be abolished, and/or visa holders should be returning to their countries of origin and replaced by American workers. I became a permanent resident not that long ago. It's an arduous and complicated path. Navigating US bureaucracy is an extremely complex endeavor, and one requires the help of several, very specialized professionals, to get to their goal. Knowing all this, I want to ask, why should someone who has worked that hard to settle in the US, has contributed greatly to the economy, behaved properly and never had issues with law and authority, be expelled from the country? Isn't the US government targeting the companies committing fraud, a better and more just path forward?

kapperchino 4y ago
Better way is probably to give a fast path to citizenship for existing h1b workers but then abolishing the system for new applicants
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  I would agree if the proposal was to rebuild the system to make it more equitable and more resilient to fraud. I don't see how the US would remain competitive without a proper way in for skilled immigrants.
  - kapperchino 4y ago
    For sure need to rebuild the system, to make it more equitable. Currently the h1b visa holders are easier to exploit as they are sponsored by corporations, and they have a time limit before they get kicked out.
  - kapperchino 4y ago
    So what could be done is to make it a time system where a corporation needs to buy a minimum of 2 years let’s say of a person’s visa.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  I don’t understand why you want to stop smart, hardworking people from coming here. Better way is to allow everyone who’s educated to come if they want.
flerchin 4y ago
We should not tolerate fraud. Your path to coming to the US should not have been so arduous. H-1B should be abolished, and something more equitable for everyone should replace it.
- abacadaba 4y ago
  some will get in, some won't. it's not going to be equitable.
  - flerchin 4y ago
    We should not select for fraud.
  - AppleBananaPie 4y ago
    Sure, but they said more equitable.
hospitalJail 4y ago
> I see a bunch of comments here in HN claiming that H-1B should pretty much be abolished, and/or visa holders should be returning to their countries of origin and replaced by American workers. I would like to state: I disagree. I don't want to be like Europe and ban things for temporary political points. I don't want to be protectionist and allow us to grow complacent off our former glory. I want to innovate and have the best competition. Its how we can continue to be the best economy in the world.
- salawat 4y ago
  Yeah... Bank failures... Bunch of CEO's and incestuous Boards coordinating layoffs with one another. Skyrocketing inflation. An economy planner (the Fed) actively conspiring with the capital class to increase unemployment? Economy largely reliant on a class of worker that is basically an "indentured servant". Labor strikes for better working conditions (railroads) cracked down on by the Feds. TBTF or bust being the end all be all for institutions, with no reciprocity or stakeholder loyalty. A fundamentally Ponzi-like social safety net in the midst of a demographic collapse. Ballooning national debt with servicibility realistically in question. Yep... Super nice economy you got going there. Why am I supposed to see this as the greatest economy out there when any positive metric is fundamentally built on scummy behavior? If you cheat to get the top, it ain't worth celebrating. It's just shitty people exploiting people who can't afford to be shitty to one another. Maybe try taking a step back and looking at things objectively, so you can see that there's more to it than the rosy bits you seem to be hyperfocused on.
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  > I would like to state: I disagree. I don't want to be like Europe and ban things for temporary political points. Ironically, I chose to immigrate to Europe, because the visa I have in the country I live gives me freedom to change jobs, and I have a clear path to citizenship. I had offers from US companies, and I declined for not wanting to deal with H1B system. I never regretted this decision. Make of that what you will.
codegeek 4y ago
I am a naturalized US citizen and I know how painful this whole thing is for immigrants. However, H1B visa has outlived its purpose and was designed in early 1990s which doesn't apply today. THe fraud happens because of how the system is designed which encourages fraudsters. We should abolish H1B visa and add a merit based system (like other countries) where you need to be highly skilled, educated etc to gain entry to the US to work legally and are free to work for any employer and get Green Card in say 3 years after working successfully, paying taxes and becoming a good citizen overall without being convicted of a crime. They should get a min. salary that is over market for the area and adjusted for inflation every year so that they cannot be low balled just to come to the country. For example, if you find an employer in Bay Area, you should get Bay Area salary and not Idaho. This would not interfere with American citizens who think they are being replaced with cheaper workers because it will encourage competition and no issue with cheaper salaries. Win Win.
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  > We should abolish H1B visa and add a merit based system (like other countries) where you need to be highly skilled, educated etc to gain entry to the US to work legally and are free to work for any employer [...] They should get a min. salary that is over market for the area and adjusted for inflation every year so that they cannot be low balled just to come to the country. I had to file paperwork for a H-1B application not that long ago, and this is exactly what it looks like, right now. I don't know if people are under the impression that the H-1B program allows unskilled immigrants to enter the US, where then are practically enslaved by companies paying them poverty wages. That is absolutely not true. H-1B applications tied to employment have to abide to prevailing wage rates, applicants need to provide proof of education and working experience, and they can switch jobs as anyone else would.
  - codegeek 4y ago
    The point is that H1B process is too restrictive and not reasonable for both sides. The paperwork is the problem. The idea that you have to first show that there is no American is ridiculous. Instead, let them compete with Americans directly for the job. That's the point I am trying to make.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ChumpGPT 4y ago
I'm not speaking about your case but the reason so many folks hate the program is it brings in slaves that are exploited by companies and lower the standard of pay (and quality). Countries like India export this poverty in many industries around the world and here in the US it's IT Industry. On a tangent. There was an online interview of an Indian fellow that was eventually hired. When this person showed up to work the manager and folks who interviewed him, swore it wasn't the person they interviewed. There is so much fuckery going on that it should be abolished. Every American kid should be given a chance first and only then should the job be offered through a program like H1B. We have a lot of kids having a difficult time finding work after Uni. Companies are using the program to basically hire temp slaves and it's hurting the entire Industry. Just saying....
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  I think you are conflating two things here. The US government is not targeting H-1B holders here, but companies trying to get more of them by flooding the system. The H-1B visa process already has provisions for all these issues, prevailing wage being one of them, which quite precisely addresses the issue of American workers being given a chance of applying for a position that could potentially be filled by a visa holder. > Companies are using the program to basically hire temp slaves and it's hurting the entire Industry. This is untrue in the vast majority of cases. Again, I'm wondering where all these false premises come from, because they do not match my experience a bit.
  - ChumpGPT 4y ago
    >I'm wondering where all these false premises come from, because they do not match my experience a bit. They must be false because they don't match your experience...
    - manuelabeledo 4y ago
      No, they are false because they are. H-1B visa requirements, processes, and data are publicly available. What you provided is just hearsay at best.
Tommstein 4y ago
> Knowing all this, I want to ask, why should someone who has worked that hard to settle in the US, has contributed greatly to the economy, behaved properly and never had issues with law and authority, be expelled from the country? Because that's the deal you agreed to for a temporary H-1B, not permanent residence.
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  There is no path to permanent residence for employment-based immigrants, without residing in the country first.

kapperchino 4y ago

Better way is probably to give a fast path to citizenship for existing h1b workers but then abolishing the system for new applicants

manuelabeledo 4y ago
I would agree if the proposal was to rebuild the system to make it more equitable and more resilient to fraud. I don't see how the US would remain competitive without a proper way in for skilled immigrants.
- kapperchino 4y ago
  For sure need to rebuild the system, to make it more equitable. Currently the h1b visa holders are easier to exploit as they are sponsored by corporations, and they have a time limit before they get kicked out.
- kapperchino 4y ago
  So what could be done is to make it a time system where a corporation needs to buy a minimum of 2 years let’s say of a person’s visa.
HDThoreaun 4y ago
I don’t understand why you want to stop smart, hardworking people from coming here. Better way is to allow everyone who’s educated to come if they want.

flerchin 4y ago

We should not tolerate fraud. Your path to coming to the US should not have been so arduous. H-1B should be abolished, and something more equitable for everyone should replace it.

abacadaba 4y ago
some will get in, some won't. it's not going to be equitable.
- flerchin 4y ago
  We should not select for fraud.
- AppleBananaPie 4y ago
  Sure, but they said more equitable.

hospitalJail 4y ago

> I see a bunch of comments here in HN claiming that H-1B should pretty much be abolished, and/or visa holders should be returning to their countries of origin and replaced by American workers. I would like to state: I disagree. I don't want to be like Europe and ban things for temporary political points. I don't want to be protectionist and allow us to grow complacent off our former glory. I want to innovate and have the best competition. Its how we can continue to be the best economy in the world.

salawat 4y ago
Yeah... Bank failures... Bunch of CEO's and incestuous Boards coordinating layoffs with one another. Skyrocketing inflation. An economy planner (the Fed) actively conspiring with the capital class to increase unemployment? Economy largely reliant on a class of worker that is basically an "indentured servant". Labor strikes for better working conditions (railroads) cracked down on by the Feds. TBTF or bust being the end all be all for institutions, with no reciprocity or stakeholder loyalty. A fundamentally Ponzi-like social safety net in the midst of a demographic collapse. Ballooning national debt with servicibility realistically in question. Yep... Super nice economy you got going there. Why am I supposed to see this as the greatest economy out there when any positive metric is fundamentally built on scummy behavior? If you cheat to get the top, it ain't worth celebrating. It's just shitty people exploiting people who can't afford to be shitty to one another. Maybe try taking a step back and looking at things objectively, so you can see that there's more to it than the rosy bits you seem to be hyperfocused on.
surgical_fire 4y ago
> I would like to state: I disagree. I don't want to be like Europe and ban things for temporary political points. Ironically, I chose to immigrate to Europe, because the visa I have in the country I live gives me freedom to change jobs, and I have a clear path to citizenship. I had offers from US companies, and I declined for not wanting to deal with H1B system. I never regretted this decision. Make of that what you will.

codegeek 4y ago

I am a naturalized US citizen and I know how painful this whole thing is for immigrants. However, H1B visa has outlived its purpose and was designed in early 1990s which doesn't apply today. THe fraud happens because of how the system is designed which encourages fraudsters. We should abolish H1B visa and add a merit based system (like other countries) where you need to be highly skilled, educated etc to gain entry to the US to work legally and are free to work for any employer and get Green Card in say 3 years after working successfully, paying taxes and becoming a good citizen overall without being convicted of a crime. They should get a min. salary that is over market for the area and adjusted for inflation every year so that they cannot be low balled just to come to the country. For example, if you find an employer in Bay Area, you should get Bay Area salary and not Idaho. This would not interfere with American citizens who think they are being replaced with cheaper workers because it will encourage competition and no issue with cheaper salaries. Win Win.

manuelabeledo 4y ago
> We should abolish H1B visa and add a merit based system (like other countries) where you need to be highly skilled, educated etc to gain entry to the US to work legally and are free to work for any employer [...] They should get a min. salary that is over market for the area and adjusted for inflation every year so that they cannot be low balled just to come to the country. I had to file paperwork for a H-1B application not that long ago, and this is exactly what it looks like, right now. I don't know if people are under the impression that the H-1B program allows unskilled immigrants to enter the US, where then are practically enslaved by companies paying them poverty wages. That is absolutely not true. H-1B applications tied to employment have to abide to prevailing wage rates, applicants need to provide proof of education and working experience, and they can switch jobs as anyone else would.
- codegeek 4y ago
  The point is that H1B process is too restrictive and not reasonable for both sides. The paperwork is the problem. The idea that you have to first show that there is no American is ridiculous. Instead, let them compete with Americans directly for the job. That's the point I am trying to make.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ChumpGPT 4y ago

I'm not speaking about your case but the reason so many folks hate the program is it brings in slaves that are exploited by companies and lower the standard of pay (and quality). Countries like India export this poverty in many industries around the world and here in the US it's IT Industry. On a tangent. There was an online interview of an Indian fellow that was eventually hired. When this person showed up to work the manager and folks who interviewed him, swore it wasn't the person they interviewed. There is so much fuckery going on that it should be abolished. Every American kid should be given a chance first and only then should the job be offered through a program like H1B. We have a lot of kids having a difficult time finding work after Uni. Companies are using the program to basically hire temp slaves and it's hurting the entire Industry. Just saying....

manuelabeledo 4y ago
I think you are conflating two things here. The US government is not targeting H-1B holders here, but companies trying to get more of them by flooding the system. The H-1B visa process already has provisions for all these issues, prevailing wage being one of them, which quite precisely addresses the issue of American workers being given a chance of applying for a position that could potentially be filled by a visa holder. > Companies are using the program to basically hire temp slaves and it's hurting the entire Industry. This is untrue in the vast majority of cases. Again, I'm wondering where all these false premises come from, because they do not match my experience a bit.
- ChumpGPT 4y ago
  >I'm wondering where all these false premises come from, because they do not match my experience a bit. They must be false because they don't match your experience...
  - manuelabeledo 4y ago
    No, they are false because they are. H-1B visa requirements, processes, and data are publicly available. What you provided is just hearsay at best.

Tommstein 4y ago

> Knowing all this, I want to ask, why should someone who has worked that hard to settle in the US, has contributed greatly to the economy, behaved properly and never had issues with law and authority, be expelled from the country? Because that's the deal you agreed to for a temporary H-1B, not permanent residence.

manuelabeledo 4y ago
There is no path to permanent residence for employment-based immigrants, without residing in the country first.