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The trouble for most people isn't age verification per se, it's the knock-on effects from that. Which do you prefer: 1) No age verification, or 2) Every acces

The trouble for most people isn't age verification per se, it's the knock-on effects from that. Which do you prefer: 1) No age verification, or 2) Every access to online adult content is forever publicly associated with your personal information? I agree neither is ideal, but I think 1 is better than 2.

arp242 4y ago
I don't think 1 and 2 are the only possible options. The thing is that thus far there hasn't been much incentive to develop technology that can verify people's age or other aspects of their identity in a privacy-friendly way, because the internet hasn't really needed it before. We should start by thinking about what we want to do: do we want to age-gate pornography? If so, why? If not, why not? And if we don't age-gate online pornography at all does that also mean a 10-year old can just walk in to a sex shop, live sex show, or BDSM club? Once we figured out some answers to that (and more) we can start thinking about the how of it all, keeping in mind that things like "access to online adult content is forever publicly associated with your personal information" would be undesirable. I don't think "well, it's kinda hard so [throw up and hands and give up]" is really a good way forward. I don't have complete answers for all of this either, but I feel a number of people here are far too dismissive about this. At this point we – the broader "hacker/IT community" – can either be part of the conversation or sideline ourselves by dismissing it all.
- coldpie 4y ago
  There could be some future in which computer security actually exists, but I just don't see our industry going in that direction right now. In any case, that technology doesn't exist now so the options today, with this law in effect, are as I stated.
  - arp242 4y ago
    Some systems do exists though, for example IRMA: https://privacybydesign.foundation/irma-explanation/ https://privacybydesign.foundation/irma-explanation/ – I do think IRMA suffers from some issues, but options do exist. If there are no laws then there is no pressure to create technology, and if there's no technology we can't create good laws. It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing innit? It's hard to tell where the future will go, but I will bet we will see more of these kind off laws passed around the world.
    - coldpie 4y ago
      No, these systems do not and cannot exist today. There is no such thing as computer security[1]. We may get there some day, decades from now. But today, if your data is on a networked computer, it should be treated as public. [1] Every day there is a new headline proving this. Here is today's: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/t-mobile-discloses-2nd-data-breach-of-2023-this-one-leaking-account-pins-and-more/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/t-mob...

arp242 4y ago

I don't think 1 and 2 are the only possible options. The thing is that thus far there hasn't been much incentive to develop technology that can verify people's age or other aspects of their identity in a privacy-friendly way, because the internet hasn't really needed it before. We should start by thinking about what we want to do: do we want to age-gate pornography? If so, why? If not, why not? And if we don't age-gate online pornography at all does that also mean a 10-year old can just walk in to a sex shop, live sex show, or BDSM club? Once we figured out some answers to that (and more) we can start thinking about the how of it all, keeping in mind that things like "access to online adult content is forever publicly associated with your personal information" would be undesirable. I don't think "well, it's kinda hard so [throw up and hands and give up]" is really a good way forward. I don't have complete answers for all of this either, but I feel a number of people here are far too dismissive about this. At this point we – the broader "hacker/IT community" – can either be part of the conversation or sideline ourselves by dismissing it all.

coldpie 4y ago
There could be some future in which computer security actually exists, but I just don't see our industry going in that direction right now. In any case, that technology doesn't exist now so the options today, with this law in effect, are as I stated.
- arp242 4y ago
  Some systems do exists though, for example IRMA: https://privacybydesign.foundation/irma-explanation/ https://privacybydesign.foundation/irma-explanation/ – I do think IRMA suffers from some issues, but options do exist. If there are no laws then there is no pressure to create technology, and if there's no technology we can't create good laws. It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing innit? It's hard to tell where the future will go, but I will bet we will see more of these kind off laws passed around the world.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    No, these systems do not and cannot exist today. There is no such thing as computer security[1]. We may get there some day, decades from now. But today, if your data is on a networked computer, it should be treated as public. [1] Every day there is a new headline proving this. Here is today's: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/t-mobile-discloses-2nd-data-breach-of-2023-this-one-leaking-account-pins-and-more/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/t-mob...