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100,000 flights a day, every day of the year is 2% of all emissions. Burning all that coal to make electricity is 20-25% of emissions. When will we fix the bi

100,000 flights a day, every day of the year is 2% of all emissions. Burning all that coal to make electricity is 20-25% of emissions. When will we fix the big problems? If we’d started 40 years ago, we’d likely be worrying about aviation being carbon neutral by 2070 instead. Time to watch Carl Sagan’s 1985 warning again https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI

mrpopo 3y ago
Coal is on the decline, and flying is on the rise (I'd give numbers but recent numbers are inaccurate because of the pandemic-induced crunch). With data from 10 years ago it was at most 6 percent of the worldwide population who ever set foot in an airplane [0]. Probably today it's still single digit. [0] https://www.quora.com/What-percent-of-the-worlds-population-will-fly-in-an-airplane-in-their-lives https://www.quora.com/What-percent-of-the-worlds-population-... What do you think will happen when the Indians and Africans fly as much as the Chinese, and when the Chinese fly as much as the Americans?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- melling 3y ago
  No, coal usage is reaching all-time highs of https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set-to-reach-a-new-high-in-2022-as-the-energy-crisis-shakes-markets# https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set... 10 years of coal is 100 years of aviation. Maybe we solve coal immediately and worry about aviation in 100 years? Technology a 100 years from now…
  - mrpopo 3y ago
    Global coal consumption is 8MT, same as 2012, whereas world population is 15% larger and also richer, it is absolutely on the decline as a percentage of primary energy. Coal is also unfortunately an essential resource for many impoverished countries, flying is a privilege that very few people can afford, and has a huge per-capita impact. We should absolutely try to reduce coal usage as fast as possible, but it's more complicated. Stop coal today, and billions of people will die (the same people that would be impacted by climate change). Also, it costs money, whereas taxing flyers makes money.
    - melling 3y ago
      Climate change doesn’t care if there are 15% more people, etc. Fill up the atmosphere with greenhouse gases and we have a problem. We’ve had over 40 years to adapt. That’s 400 years of aviation in terms of coal usage.
      - mrpopo 3y ago
        You have made your point, 3 times the same one, but you are yet to discuss mine. "We should solve coal immediately": Who is "we" (I for one don't have coal at home) How can coal be "solved"? Coal is in India, China, US, etc. I don't live in these countries and try not to buy anything from these countries anyway. My country has given up on coal completely. The only country from the top 3 that has enough economic leeway to transition quickly and completely is the US, and that would be "only" 8% of the total share, which by your logic would be not worth looking into, since 10 years of Chinese coal is 50 years of American coal, or something. I absolutely think we should work on reducing coal usage as much and as quickly as possible, but it's out of my capacity. However, I can give up/reduce flying, and that's what I am doing.
        melling 3y ago
        “I can give up/reduce flying, and that's what I am doing” That’s completely meaningless. It accomplishes absolutely nothing. Climate change isn’t slowed. This is one of those problems where we need to fix the big problems. And we need to fix it globally.
        mrpopo 3y ago
        OK thanks for the life lesson. I think what you're doing is completely meaningless too.
shafyy 3y ago
Yes, let's work on every aspect. But your take is completely wrong. Sure, we need to get off coal and coal comprises a big chunk of emissions. But burning coal is also the foundation economic engine and livelihood of billions of people. I guess what I'm saying is that while coal is a big chunk of the CO2 emissions, it als has something to show for it. Those people flying every day? Mostly the richest people on the globe and for luxury reasons.
- melling 3y ago
  “Coal is the foundation of the economic engine” We’ve had 40 years to not be in that situation in 2023. Now we need to line up a bunch of miracles by 2050

mrpopo 3y ago

Coal is on the decline, and flying is on the rise (I'd give numbers but recent numbers are inaccurate because of the pandemic-induced crunch). With data from 10 years ago it was at most 6 percent of the worldwide population who ever set foot in an airplane [0]. Probably today it's still single digit. [0] https://www.quora.com/What-percent-of-the-worlds-population-will-fly-in-an-airplane-in-their-lives https://www.quora.com/What-percent-of-the-worlds-population-... What do you think will happen when the Indians and Africans fly as much as the Chinese, and when the Chinese fly as much as the Americans?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
melling 3y ago
No, coal usage is reaching all-time highs of https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set-to-reach-a-new-high-in-2022-as-the-energy-crisis-shakes-markets# https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set... 10 years of coal is 100 years of aviation. Maybe we solve coal immediately and worry about aviation in 100 years? Technology a 100 years from now…
- mrpopo 3y ago
  Global coal consumption is 8MT, same as 2012, whereas world population is 15% larger and also richer, it is absolutely on the decline as a percentage of primary energy. Coal is also unfortunately an essential resource for many impoverished countries, flying is a privilege that very few people can afford, and has a huge per-capita impact. We should absolutely try to reduce coal usage as fast as possible, but it's more complicated. Stop coal today, and billions of people will die (the same people that would be impacted by climate change). Also, it costs money, whereas taxing flyers makes money.
  - melling 3y ago
    Climate change doesn’t care if there are 15% more people, etc. Fill up the atmosphere with greenhouse gases and we have a problem. We’ve had over 40 years to adapt. That’s 400 years of aviation in terms of coal usage.
    - mrpopo 3y ago
      You have made your point, 3 times the same one, but you are yet to discuss mine. "We should solve coal immediately": Who is "we" (I for one don't have coal at home) How can coal be "solved"? Coal is in India, China, US, etc. I don't live in these countries and try not to buy anything from these countries anyway. My country has given up on coal completely. The only country from the top 3 that has enough economic leeway to transition quickly and completely is the US, and that would be "only" 8% of the total share, which by your logic would be not worth looking into, since 10 years of Chinese coal is 50 years of American coal, or something. I absolutely think we should work on reducing coal usage as much and as quickly as possible, but it's out of my capacity. However, I can give up/reduce flying, and that's what I am doing.
      - melling 3y ago
        “I can give up/reduce flying, and that's what I am doing” That’s completely meaningless. It accomplishes absolutely nothing. Climate change isn’t slowed. This is one of those problems where we need to fix the big problems. And we need to fix it globally.
        mrpopo 3y ago
        OK thanks for the life lesson. I think what you're doing is completely meaningless too.

shafyy 3y ago

Yes, let's work on every aspect. But your take is completely wrong. Sure, we need to get off coal and coal comprises a big chunk of emissions. But burning coal is also the foundation economic engine and livelihood of billions of people. I guess what I'm saying is that while coal is a big chunk of the CO2 emissions, it als has something to show for it. Those people flying every day? Mostly the richest people on the globe and for luxury reasons.

melling 3y ago
“Coal is the foundation of the economic engine” We’ve had 40 years to not be in that situation in 2023. Now we need to line up a bunch of miracles by 2050