6 ms·

If tiny chemicals can do that to you, because you ingested them, what about all of the other things you ingest, including sound, which cause chemicals in your b

If tiny chemicals can do that to you, because you ingested them, what about all of the other things you ingest, including sound, which cause chemicals in your brain to make reactions?

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
Sounds do have a strong effect on people's emotions, but they don't tend to affect the way in which you think (maybe emotionally) in the same way that psychedelics can do.
- leroy-is-here 3y ago
  Words, transmitted by sound _absolutely_, without a single doubt, can affect the thoughts of an individual. And, of course, horns and loud sounds and noises will also affect the thoughts.
  - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
    Those affect your thoughts, but don't really change the manner in which you think to the same degree that psychedelics do. I'd grant some exceptions such as a zen student receiving a lesson/koan that drastically changes their thought processes, but I'd argue that the change was already within them and the sound was just the catalyst - the same lesson/koan is unlikely to have similar effects on other people, and certainly not without the recipient having spent time studying that religion/philosophy.
    - leroy-is-here 3y ago
      Do you have any reading for me?
      - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
        Why yes, yes I do https://prirai.github.io/books/unix-koans.html https://prirai.github.io/books/unix-koans.html
  - abawany 3y ago
    Can confirm that the 'urgent'-sounding music and shouting on most cable news channels definitely affects my thoughts for the worse. I also have tinnitus and having the noise on constantly without any discernible source, even after all these years, is not conducive to peace.
danbruc 3y ago
I am not sure what you mean, but sensory inputs can obviously affect you. Hearing a bear roar right behind you will probably change you state of mind pretty quickly.
- whinenot 3y ago
  Can confirm. Sleeping in a tent on the Serengeti whilst hyenas and lions prowl around the perimeter of the campground has a noticeable effect on one's sleep pattern and heart rate.
- Arrath 3y ago
  "Probably" seems like a massive understatement.
- dnc 3y ago
  From my own experience, "only" deep and intense breathing for not more than 5 minutes can alter state of mind drastically.
  - skinkestek 3y ago
    Am I correct that you meant: > [...] something as simple as deep and intense breathing for not more than 5 minutes can alter state of mind drastically. ? Because it seems some people are voting as if you wrote "[...] the only thing that can [...].
    - dnc 3y ago
      yes, you are correct, sorry for the ambiguity and late reply.
eimrine 3y ago
Is this a question? If yes, what is the field of possible answers?
- leroy-is-here 3y ago
  Well, the answer is literally that everything you ingest affects you. It affects your body and the body affects the mind. From the food you eat to the words you hear, your body and mind is affected.
  - eimrine 3y ago
    That obviously is true, but you are completely ignoring the argument of the person you are answering to. He told that the brain might be learned using effect of some substance by the same principle when Neurophysiologists observe people with damaged brain and realize what the damaged surface is doing. And you are telling that people without brain damages can be observed by Neurophysiologists as well which is just a truism.
    - leroy-is-here 3y ago
      I am addressing the original argument. The original premise was mere amusement that such a chemical could exist which could alter the mind. What I’m saying is that there is more than just chemicals which can change your mind. If you say it is obvious that everything you ingest affects you, then what about time? Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs. And, of course, it is obvious that time affects our mind and body.
      - danbruc 3y ago
        Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs. We are not ingesting time, we are in a certain sense creating it. We constantly observe the world and it changes over time but just observing the world alone is not enough to perceive time. You have to memorize the current state of the world as you just perceived it and later compare your new perceptions with the memory in order to determine that the world has changed in between.
kelnos 3y ago
I would think there's a difference between regular stimuli (through touch, sound, sight, taste, smell) causing your brain to react -- possibly drastically, and deliberately changing your brain chemistry in an "unnatural" way by taking drugs. One chemical change is caused by the brain working as designed, while the other is a deliberate attempt to change the brain directly.

If tiny chemicals can do that to you, because you ingested them, what about all of the other things you ingest, including sound, which cause chemicals in your brain to make reactions?

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago

Sounds do have a strong effect on people's emotions, but they don't tend to affect the way in which you think (maybe emotionally) in the same way that psychedelics can do.

leroy-is-here 3y ago
Words, transmitted by sound _absolutely_, without a single doubt, can affect the thoughts of an individual. And, of course, horns and loud sounds and noises will also affect the thoughts.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  Those affect your thoughts, but don't really change the manner in which you think to the same degree that psychedelics do. I'd grant some exceptions such as a zen student receiving a lesson/koan that drastically changes their thought processes, but I'd argue that the change was already within them and the sound was just the catalyst - the same lesson/koan is unlikely to have similar effects on other people, and certainly not without the recipient having spent time studying that religion/philosophy.
  - leroy-is-here 3y ago
    Do you have any reading for me?
    - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
      Why yes, yes I do https://prirai.github.io/books/unix-koans.html https://prirai.github.io/books/unix-koans.html
- abawany 3y ago
  Can confirm that the 'urgent'-sounding music and shouting on most cable news channels definitely affects my thoughts for the worse. I also have tinnitus and having the noise on constantly without any discernible source, even after all these years, is not conducive to peace.

danbruc 3y ago

I am not sure what you mean, but sensory inputs can obviously affect you. Hearing a bear roar right behind you will probably change you state of mind pretty quickly.

whinenot 3y ago
Can confirm. Sleeping in a tent on the Serengeti whilst hyenas and lions prowl around the perimeter of the campground has a noticeable effect on one's sleep pattern and heart rate.
Arrath 3y ago
"Probably" seems like a massive understatement.
dnc 3y ago
From my own experience, "only" deep and intense breathing for not more than 5 minutes can alter state of mind drastically.
- skinkestek 3y ago
  Am I correct that you meant: > [...] something as simple as deep and intense breathing for not more than 5 minutes can alter state of mind drastically. ? Because it seems some people are voting as if you wrote "[...] the only thing that can [...].
  - dnc 3y ago
    yes, you are correct, sorry for the ambiguity and late reply.

eimrine 3y ago

Is this a question? If yes, what is the field of possible answers?

leroy-is-here 3y ago
Well, the answer is literally that everything you ingest affects you. It affects your body and the body affects the mind. From the food you eat to the words you hear, your body and mind is affected.
- eimrine 3y ago
  That obviously is true, but you are completely ignoring the argument of the person you are answering to. He told that the brain might be learned using effect of some substance by the same principle when Neurophysiologists observe people with damaged brain and realize what the damaged surface is doing. And you are telling that people without brain damages can be observed by Neurophysiologists as well which is just a truism.
  - leroy-is-here 3y ago
    I am addressing the original argument. The original premise was mere amusement that such a chemical could exist which could alter the mind. What I’m saying is that there is more than just chemicals which can change your mind. If you say it is obvious that everything you ingest affects you, then what about time? Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs. And, of course, it is obvious that time affects our mind and body.
    - danbruc 3y ago
      Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs. We are not ingesting time, we are in a certain sense creating it. We constantly observe the world and it changes over time but just observing the world alone is not enough to perceive time. You have to memorize the current state of the world as you just perceived it and later compare your new perceptions with the memory in order to determine that the world has changed in between.

kelnos 3y ago

I would think there's a difference between regular stimuli (through touch, sound, sight, taste, smell) causing your brain to react -- possibly drastically, and deliberately changing your brain chemistry in an "unnatural" way by taking drugs. One chemical change is caused by the brain working as designed, while the other is a deliberate attempt to change the brain directly.