5 ms·

The alternative was panic and worse. The journalists didn't refuse to ask basic questions, they only applied a metaheuristic. There were already MILLIONS of p

The alternative was panic and worse. The journalists didn't refuse to ask basic questions, they only applied a metaheuristic. There were already MILLIONS of people worldwide thinking the vaccines were a ONU/bill gates pedophile-satanic conspiracy, etc. A lot of people not only didn't want to understand the science, but was attacking ALL SCIENCE. Even democracy got at risk. The system had to reorganize somehow, or the bases of civilization would be at risk. No passarán.

gampleman 3y ago
Hint: providing an obviously false and/or one-sided narrative isn't a great way to dampen down conspiracy theories, rather quite the opposite.
gizmo 3y ago
I think your attitude exemplifies the difference in values that was brought to the surface during covid. When you embrace extremist claims that "the bases of civilization [were] at risk" you can justify anything. There is no moral line you would not cross if the alternative is the very collapse of civilization itself. This kind of thinking is not healthy and not compatible with the kind of free society we should strive towards.
AnonCoward42 3y ago
> The alternative was panic and worse. Either panic or (false) advertising an experimental vaccine. This does look like a false dichotomy. You might instead educate people about the potential risks and clarify the limits, so they may decide. In the defence of vaccine producers I want to say that they at least did point out early on that they did not develop it with the goal of stopping transmission. Which maybe led some to believe "there is a chance", but it's the code for "it does not do it". This was known even before the fourth phase of the study (approval of the vaccine). > There were already MILLIONS of people worldwide thinking the vaccines were a ONU/bill gates pedophile-satanic conspiracy, etc. A lot of people not only didn't want to understand the science, but was attacking ALL SCIENCE. Even democracy got at risk. The system had to reorganize somehow, or the bases of civilization would be at risk. Either you believe in the vaccine or in an absurd (and very specific) conspiracy. These are both extreme view points and gov/media did themselves a disservice by sticking with one of them.
- fabian2k 3y ago
  Against the early variants the vaccines were pretty effective in reducing transmission. Only against Omicron did this fundamentally change.
  - AnonCoward42 3y ago
    The alpha-variant was in decline and not the most common iirc, when the widespread vaccination started. Either it rains or it doesn't, but having a rainmaker tell you why his service is necessary is comforting. > Against the early variants the vaccines were pretty effective in reducing transmission. Even if it was true, what does it matter?
- gverrilla 3y ago
  It was not only a matter of believing "the vaccine", but other vaccines aswell, and also basic science, medicine, hospitals, doctors, democracy, journalism, etc - which are all still under attack by the stupidity of right wing extremism. I don't see how defending the basic building blocks of our society would be an "extreme" perspective - at all.
lynx23 3y ago
So, democracies had to put out a big fucking lie to save themselves? The lost trust will never be gained back.
- gverrilla 3y ago
  What big fucking lie are you talking about, exactly? I'm not American. Where I live only lunatic people are attacking the media, and the only people saying there was any "big fucking lie" would be those lunatics that think the UN is some satanic conspiracy or something.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    If you belief the meme that every critic is automatic a lunatic, talking to you about this issue is in vain. The media has definitely been used to transport a narrative, and did not work independently during the covid crisis. If you believe otherwise, I wish you all the best.

gampleman 3y ago

Hint: providing an obviously false and/or one-sided narrative isn't a great way to dampen down conspiracy theories, rather quite the opposite.

gizmo 3y ago

I think your attitude exemplifies the difference in values that was brought to the surface during covid. When you embrace extremist claims that "the bases of civilization [were] at risk" you can justify anything. There is no moral line you would not cross if the alternative is the very collapse of civilization itself. This kind of thinking is not healthy and not compatible with the kind of free society we should strive towards.

AnonCoward42 3y ago

> The alternative was panic and worse. Either panic or (false) advertising an experimental vaccine. This does look like a false dichotomy. You might instead educate people about the potential risks and clarify the limits, so they may decide. In the defence of vaccine producers I want to say that they at least did point out early on that they did not develop it with the goal of stopping transmission. Which maybe led some to believe "there is a chance", but it's the code for "it does not do it". This was known even before the fourth phase of the study (approval of the vaccine). > There were already MILLIONS of people worldwide thinking the vaccines were a ONU/bill gates pedophile-satanic conspiracy, etc. A lot of people not only didn't want to understand the science, but was attacking ALL SCIENCE. Even democracy got at risk. The system had to reorganize somehow, or the bases of civilization would be at risk. Either you believe in the vaccine or in an absurd (and very specific) conspiracy. These are both extreme view points and gov/media did themselves a disservice by sticking with one of them.

fabian2k 3y ago
Against the early variants the vaccines were pretty effective in reducing transmission. Only against Omicron did this fundamentally change.
- AnonCoward42 3y ago
  The alpha-variant was in decline and not the most common iirc, when the widespread vaccination started. Either it rains or it doesn't, but having a rainmaker tell you why his service is necessary is comforting. > Against the early variants the vaccines were pretty effective in reducing transmission. Even if it was true, what does it matter?
gverrilla 3y ago
It was not only a matter of believing "the vaccine", but other vaccines aswell, and also basic science, medicine, hospitals, doctors, democracy, journalism, etc - which are all still under attack by the stupidity of right wing extremism. I don't see how defending the basic building blocks of our society would be an "extreme" perspective - at all.

lynx23 3y ago

So, democracies had to put out a big fucking lie to save themselves? The lost trust will never be gained back.

gverrilla 3y ago
What big fucking lie are you talking about, exactly? I'm not American. Where I live only lunatic people are attacking the media, and the only people saying there was any "big fucking lie" would be those lunatics that think the UN is some satanic conspiracy or something.
- lynx23 3y ago
  If you belief the meme that every critic is automatic a lunatic, talking to you about this issue is in vain. The media has definitely been used to transport a narrative, and did not work independently during the covid crisis. If you believe otherwise, I wish you all the best.