6 ms·

You guys should be flipping cars when bank execs didn't get jail time for the financial crisis

jrs235 3y ago
Eh. We still have our entertainment and comforts to distract us. But with the greater and greater divide between the haves and have nots flipping cars might look tame when things change.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Well America has plenty of outrage, but they're utterly divided and most that outrage just goes into poopooing the other side, instead of something productive like real demonstrations and protests with a real purpose. Instead we get outrage protests mainly designed for extremist groups to waste their time fighting eachother and playing at civil war.
- newswasboring 3y ago
  America needs a leader who can inspire people to work with each other even when they don't agree on everything. I am quite sure you can build a significant coalition around financial issues, maybe even bigger than a super majority. But somehow people are not willing to work with each other unless they pass each other's purity tests. Thus, nothing changes and the status quo wins every time.
  - gorbachev 3y ago
    That will never happen in our lifetime. Democrats can't do it, because Republicans will never cooperate with a Democratic Party president. Republicans can't do it, because they will continue to nominate a culture warrior whose only job is to fight wokeness, so they aren't even interested in it. This thing will keep escalating, relatively slowly, until it finally crosses the line and even the Republicans will figure out that maybe they ought to have some accountability. My guess it will take minimum of two generations.
    - newswasboring 3y ago
      I agree, if this was to happen it will have to happen with a third party. But America seems to be allergic to any third parties. For the longest time I used to think that the two party system is like a law in America or something. Like China has a one party system. When I learned that it isn't, i spent a considerable amount of time confused as to why then in all political discourse is the two party system so... enshrined. Some say if you listen to me closely, I'm still confused about this. I come from a country which routinely has 20 parties in different levels of government each with significantly different agendas (or at least we used to, sigh...). Why is this not the case in America? It seems to me that everyone is dissatisfied with their party, yet they don't want to support anything else. For a country which prides itself in its entrepreneurship and startup culture, the reluctance in supporting innovation in politics is so surprising. Edit: btw, i disagree with you that Republicans will "start" to hold their leaders accountable. From an outsider perspective, the Republican party seems to be achieving their targets and GoP members are more active than Democratic party members. I may disagree with most of their social and financial goals, but I will acknowledge they are effective and there are severe consequences on failure.
      - nicoburns 3y ago
        It's the First Past The Post voting system that leads to two parties.
        newswasboring 3y ago
        My country also has a first past the post system. We still had several parties. In fact till about 15 years ago all states had their major parties which had significant presence in the federal parliament too. I don't think this is a valid explanation
        mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
        And what's the situation now? Your country could gradually he heading towards a two party system.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  You can only think this if you ignored all of the protests in 2008. What America has is a population that doesn't get a say in American policy, unless there's some indirect sales risk for some powerful person who supports the policy (i.e. somebody is afraid that if the policy is passed, than sales at e.g. Kia or AB InBev will drop because of their association with it.) Even this can be completely thwarted by industry collusion.
govolckurself 3y ago
[dead]
stcroixx 3y ago
That’s hardly effective and those cars belong to other citizens, who would just then hate you and never support your ‘cause’. Tantrums don’t get rewarded.
RGamma 3y ago
America does not seem to be a place of collective action (anymore?). Instead everybody is blaming themselves and each other, fuelling a mental health crisis and social malaise. It's not pretty to watch.
lp0_on_fire 3y ago
Occupy Wall Street was the beginning of that but the media and their allies in the government decided to push for a race war in the 2012 election. It’s not a coincidence the oppression Olympics were turned up to 11 at that time. That’s not to say that there aren’t issues with race in America but they pale in comparison to the socioeconomic ones. A nation obsessed over race and culture has little time to confront other issues.
- 20after4 3y ago
  And most people are oblivious to this simple observation, allowing the situation to continue. Feels like the war is already lost a long time ago.
- l3mure 3y ago
  Race is the modality by which class is primarily expressed in America. There is no way to resolve socioeconomic problems without dealing with race at the same time, clearly demonstrated multiple times in US history. The failure of Reconstruction -- an "Unfinished Revolution" as Eric Foner puts it -- was precisely white workers' rejection of class solidarity with Black workers in favor of post-war white racial reconciliation.
  - wesapien 3y ago
    Crab mentality and revenge seeking will keep people from true progress. We need to crush the idea of victim hood as a privilege.
    - l3mure 3y ago
      > We need to crush the idea of victim hood as a privilege. "Victim hood as privilege" is a right-wing strawman of the idea of intersectionality. You're suggesting throwing a punch at an obvious feint. Intersectionality is simply the idea that certain groups experience unique configurations of more general problems, and that counteracting those configurations contributes to resolving the general case. Do you think a coal miner with black lung who organizes for compensation on that basis is claiming "victim hood as privilege"? I hope not. It should also be clear that coal miners organizing for their own workplace safety helps ALL workers. That's why OSHA exists after all. The same applies to racial issues.
prasadjoglekar 3y ago
That was what Occupy Wall St and Tea Party movements were. Remember that? Before each of them got infested with social-issue parasites of each pole, both were populist reactions to financial injustices.
- JamesLeonis 3y ago
  Occupy was suppressed by the entire police state, coordinated at the federal level under the FBI and DHS [0]. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-co...
  - BitwiseFool 3y ago
    I feel like the most significant cause of Occupy's burnout was the fact that it was so poorly organized and had no concrete goal. I don't recall any specific legislation or reform that they were calling to enact and there was a cacophony of voices each calling for some kind of societal revolution. Eventually the local Occupy demonstration turned into a homeless encampment with some signs propped alongside the roadway. I certainly won't deny government meddling but I honestly think the movement was doomed from the start.
    - brodouevencode 3y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahMGoB01qiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahMGoB01qiA Peter Schiff did a man on the street with some folks of the Occupy movement, and basically proves your point - the desired goals were so scattered and sometimes even contradictory.
    - smolder 3y ago
      When there is concerted effort to undermine a populist movement, that's how it will end up looking: disorganized, chaotic, unproductive, and eventually dead. It very well could have failed due to deliberate interference where it might have had a substantial impact otherwise. How much would you bet that there weren't covert agents working to put it down?
hoseja 3y ago
It was called Occupy and it got shut down with extreme prejudice and we're still living in the psyop environment that is a response to it.
JohnFen 3y ago
I don't think destroying the property of innocent others would help.
- wesapien 3y ago
  We're talking about sins so great that it defines the lives of every younger generation after 2008. It's just as unconscionable as the Iraq war and long term occupation of Afghanistan. Our lives are short and a lot of people have been robbed of time.
brodouevencode 3y ago
The American banking system is highly regulated in spite of some of the things you'll read here and other places. It's very hard to start a bank, and banks only allow some products because of regulation. The problem comes when the politicians slide into the back pocket of the bank execs who are all too happy to keep the status quo. In that respect the politicians are just as guilty as the bank execs.
fuzzfactor 3y ago
>flipping cars when bank execs didn't get jail time for the financial crisis It wouldn't have done any good. Those that benefitted would have started flipping houses anyway.

Eh. We still have our entertainment and comforts to distract us. But with the greater and greater divide between the haves and have nots flipping cars might look tame when things change.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

Well America has plenty of outrage, but they're utterly divided and most that outrage just goes into poopooing the other side, instead of something productive like real demonstrations and protests with a real purpose. Instead we get outrage protests mainly designed for extremist groups to waste their time fighting eachother and playing at civil war.

newswasboring 3y ago
America needs a leader who can inspire people to work with each other even when they don't agree on everything. I am quite sure you can build a significant coalition around financial issues, maybe even bigger than a super majority. But somehow people are not willing to work with each other unless they pass each other's purity tests. Thus, nothing changes and the status quo wins every time.
- gorbachev 3y ago
  That will never happen in our lifetime. Democrats can't do it, because Republicans will never cooperate with a Democratic Party president. Republicans can't do it, because they will continue to nominate a culture warrior whose only job is to fight wokeness, so they aren't even interested in it. This thing will keep escalating, relatively slowly, until it finally crosses the line and even the Republicans will figure out that maybe they ought to have some accountability. My guess it will take minimum of two generations.
  - newswasboring 3y ago
    I agree, if this was to happen it will have to happen with a third party. But America seems to be allergic to any third parties. For the longest time I used to think that the two party system is like a law in America or something. Like China has a one party system. When I learned that it isn't, i spent a considerable amount of time confused as to why then in all political discourse is the two party system so... enshrined. Some say if you listen to me closely, I'm still confused about this. I come from a country which routinely has 20 parties in different levels of government each with significantly different agendas (or at least we used to, sigh...). Why is this not the case in America? It seems to me that everyone is dissatisfied with their party, yet they don't want to support anything else. For a country which prides itself in its entrepreneurship and startup culture, the reluctance in supporting innovation in politics is so surprising. Edit: btw, i disagree with you that Republicans will "start" to hold their leaders accountable. From an outsider perspective, the Republican party seems to be achieving their targets and GoP members are more active than Democratic party members. I may disagree with most of their social and financial goals, but I will acknowledge they are effective and there are severe consequences on failure.
    - nicoburns 3y ago
      It's the First Past The Post voting system that leads to two parties.
      - newswasboring 3y ago
        My country also has a first past the post system. We still had several parties. In fact till about 15 years ago all states had their major parties which had significant presence in the federal parliament too. I don't think this is a valid explanation
        mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
        And what's the situation now? Your country could gradually he heading towards a two party system.
pessimizer 3y ago
You can only think this if you ignored all of the protests in 2008. What America has is a population that doesn't get a say in American policy, unless there's some indirect sales risk for some powerful person who supports the policy (i.e. somebody is afraid that if the policy is passed, than sales at e.g. Kia or AB InBev will drop because of their association with it.) Even this can be completely thwarted by industry collusion.

govolckurself 3y ago

[dead]

stcroixx 3y ago

That’s hardly effective and those cars belong to other citizens, who would just then hate you and never support your ‘cause’. Tantrums don’t get rewarded.

RGamma 3y ago

America does not seem to be a place of collective action (anymore?). Instead everybody is blaming themselves and each other, fuelling a mental health crisis and social malaise. It's not pretty to watch.

lp0_on_fire 3y ago

Occupy Wall Street was the beginning of that but the media and their allies in the government decided to push for a race war in the 2012 election. It’s not a coincidence the oppression Olympics were turned up to 11 at that time. That’s not to say that there aren’t issues with race in America but they pale in comparison to the socioeconomic ones. A nation obsessed over race and culture has little time to confront other issues.

20after4 3y ago
And most people are oblivious to this simple observation, allowing the situation to continue. Feels like the war is already lost a long time ago.
l3mure 3y ago
Race is the modality by which class is primarily expressed in America. There is no way to resolve socioeconomic problems without dealing with race at the same time, clearly demonstrated multiple times in US history. The failure of Reconstruction -- an "Unfinished Revolution" as Eric Foner puts it -- was precisely white workers' rejection of class solidarity with Black workers in favor of post-war white racial reconciliation.
- wesapien 3y ago
  Crab mentality and revenge seeking will keep people from true progress. We need to crush the idea of victim hood as a privilege.
  - l3mure 3y ago
    > We need to crush the idea of victim hood as a privilege. "Victim hood as privilege" is a right-wing strawman of the idea of intersectionality. You're suggesting throwing a punch at an obvious feint. Intersectionality is simply the idea that certain groups experience unique configurations of more general problems, and that counteracting those configurations contributes to resolving the general case. Do you think a coal miner with black lung who organizes for compensation on that basis is claiming "victim hood as privilege"? I hope not. It should also be clear that coal miners organizing for their own workplace safety helps ALL workers. That's why OSHA exists after all. The same applies to racial issues.

prasadjoglekar 3y ago

That was what Occupy Wall St and Tea Party movements were. Remember that? Before each of them got infested with social-issue parasites of each pole, both were populist reactions to financial injustices.

JamesLeonis 3y ago
Occupy was suppressed by the entire police state, coordinated at the federal level under the FBI and DHS [0]. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-co...
- BitwiseFool 3y ago
  I feel like the most significant cause of Occupy's burnout was the fact that it was so poorly organized and had no concrete goal. I don't recall any specific legislation or reform that they were calling to enact and there was a cacophony of voices each calling for some kind of societal revolution. Eventually the local Occupy demonstration turned into a homeless encampment with some signs propped alongside the roadway. I certainly won't deny government meddling but I honestly think the movement was doomed from the start.
  - brodouevencode 3y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahMGoB01qiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahMGoB01qiA Peter Schiff did a man on the street with some folks of the Occupy movement, and basically proves your point - the desired goals were so scattered and sometimes even contradictory.
  - smolder 3y ago
    When there is concerted effort to undermine a populist movement, that's how it will end up looking: disorganized, chaotic, unproductive, and eventually dead. It very well could have failed due to deliberate interference where it might have had a substantial impact otherwise. How much would you bet that there weren't covert agents working to put it down?

hoseja 3y ago

It was called Occupy and it got shut down with extreme prejudice and we're still living in the psyop environment that is a response to it.

JohnFen 3y ago

I don't think destroying the property of innocent others would help.

wesapien 3y ago
We're talking about sins so great that it defines the lives of every younger generation after 2008. It's just as unconscionable as the Iraq war and long term occupation of Afghanistan. Our lives are short and a lot of people have been robbed of time.

brodouevencode 3y ago

The American banking system is highly regulated in spite of some of the things you'll read here and other places. It's very hard to start a bank, and banks only allow some products because of regulation. The problem comes when the politicians slide into the back pocket of the bank execs who are all too happy to keep the status quo. In that respect the politicians are just as guilty as the bank execs.

fuzzfactor 3y ago

>flipping cars when bank execs didn't get jail time for the financial crisis It wouldn't have done any good. Those that benefitted would have started flipping houses anyway.