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The constant invocation of Nazi this and Nazi that really not only undermines the issue, but it’s also racist in that it centers everything only about a single

The constant invocation of Nazi this and Nazi that really not only undermines the issue, but it’s also racist in that it centers everything only about a single event and only one single instance of similar awful things that only happened in Europe. The opposition to human rights abuses should be a universal one, not something that is cheapened by narrowing everything down to a comparison to a single event. Guess what, there are atrocities that have both happened to and were committed by other people and also in different parts of the world besides Europe. It ignores the awfulness of what has happened and is happening to other people too and other people also matter, not just one group at one time frozen in place.

boffinAudio 3y ago
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- frankfrankfrank 3y ago
  Thank you for saying that, because that is precisely the narrowing of perspective I am referring to, which puts everything into a comparison and measure of how and to what degree something is “Nazi”. But you’re clearly in good company, we’ve seen it play out in grand style over the last couple years especially where everything someone doesn’t like is “Nazis”. insert circular accusation meme here Fact of the matter is that it is an unhealthy illusion that “the Nazis” were some kind of anomaly or extraordinary thing, and that perspective that they were is precisely being peoples minds up to the point that they cannot think clearly, let alone properly classify, order, and structure things in order to solve problems or even just deduce the underlying logic. Nothing about ethnic unity standing in opposition to a perceived enemy is in any way unique to any parameters. The plains tribes of what we call America would unite and overrun other tribes that they perceived as threats and resource competitors, and they would mercilessly slaughter and brutalize, rape, pillage, and kill. Genghis Khan may have been the single worst genocidal maniac in all of human history, even just by rough guesstimate (I don’t recall “the Nazis” launching rotten corpses full of botulism and thereby also causing the plague that killed hundreds of millions), and he also did it with what is effectively “national socialist”, i.e., unitedly working among and for one’s own nation, i.e., ethnicity. Or consider the Spanish who conquered and eradicated essentially all indigenous cultures on all of the Americas, largely including the ones the English are blamed for, even though it was the Hispanics, i.e., Spanish and Portuguese, who also eradicated and plundered and conquered the Americas for their own race/ethnicity/nation. Am I at all getting thought about the fact that “everything is Nazis” is a stunting mentality? “Nazis” didn’t somehow overtake and become imbued in America through “operation paperclip”, what the Nazis did for a relatively few years that was really not even nearly as awful as what had been done at that point and arguably since, considering we were supposed to have known better. We should have known better since “the Nazis”, correct? Never again auch atrocities, right? So how is it that not only has no one been held accountable for the destruction of Iraq under obvious and over lies, murdering somewhere around probably one million people and causing untold misery and devastation in people’s lives, but Assange, who exposed the atrocities is rotting in prison and very few people even care? People can’t see the atrocities and the awful people and their atrocities in front of them for all “the Nazis” occupying their minds … I argue, intentionally, by constant focus on “the Nazis”.
  - CrackerNews 3y ago
    I agree. People confuse imperialism with Nazism too easily. It's not necessarily that society is controlled by Nazis, but that imperialism is considered (by Lenin) as the highest stage of an economic system driven by the continual growth of capital. To tie things back, the OP cites a liberal empire as a possible solution to the problem of US-style Dr. Mengeles, but I see the empire overriding the liberal in the first place. The focus on "the Nazis", absent of serious analysis of the philosophical context that gave rise to them, can end up ignoring what made people believe in the ideology in the first place. There's a particular mythological victimhood for Nazis where the only way to break free is to create their own empire to subjugate (and exterminate) who they viewed as parasites. This ends up being highly problematic when people groups are viewed essentially only as good as their stereotypical economic function. A liberal empire isn't concerned with rectifying people's economic function outside of markets and incentives. This leaves wiggle room for exploitation that lead to the US-style Dr. Mengeles experimenting on poor people (which also has a racial element since minorities can tend to be poorer.)
- krapp 3y ago
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  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    > ... Nazism and related ideologies ... Prior to the Nazi's the ideology was called something else. Eugenics. Manifest Destiny. White Australia Policy. etc. German extremists bundled these together under their heinous flag and used it against their 'enemy', the Jewish people living in Europe at the time - but you are right that the eugenics and white supremacy movements came from, principally, American sources, and have been the motivation and justification for countless similar atrocities ever since the fall of the Nazis. The key thing is that the brand changed, but the effect remains the same: degradation and deterioration, if not outright extermination, of cultures deemed inferior to white, western ideals. We continue this outrageous ideology in the form of the "War on Terror", which is just Nazi ideology, rebranded for the pallets of a gullible, decadent, over-fed American public ... who would tear down the walls of the White House if it were to ever outright parade the swastika, but who are nevertheless patriotically inclined, as good robots are, to get behind whatever threat their mighty fighting men have determined is the Next Big Bad Guy™ ...
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  > genocide of inferior races for the sake of fundamentalist, totalitarian-authoritarian regimes, seeking lebensraum. (See: Syria, Iraq. Yemen) Baloney. Take Iraq, for example. Yes, we killed a lot of people, arguably for bad reasons. And then, we genocided the conquered people, made the country a US colony, transplanted our own people there, and took over the oil. Oh, wait, no we didn't. Your hyperventilating denunciation is a complete distortion of what actually happened in Iraq. We didn't go there for lebensraum. We didn't genocide an "inferior race". We didn't even go there to take their oil. You want to criticize American militarism and American foreign policy? Fine; go ahead. But at least criticize them for what they actually did, not for a complete strawman caricature.
  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    [flagged]
gverrilla 3y ago
[flagged]
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  > Which is also the base for nazifascism. Indeed. The propagation of neo-Nazi ideology in the modern context depends on such ignorance. Ignorance and naivete are key ingredients in the modern neo-Nazi recipe. Shine the light of truth, they scurry. Give them a fortress protected by National Security Letters - they thrive.
davidguetta 3y ago
That's precisely the point of this article and the gotcha title: showing that Nazi-like horrors can be everywhere, including the USA

boffinAudio 3y ago

[flagged]

frankfrankfrank 3y ago
Thank you for saying that, because that is precisely the narrowing of perspective I am referring to, which puts everything into a comparison and measure of how and to what degree something is “Nazi”. But you’re clearly in good company, we’ve seen it play out in grand style over the last couple years especially where everything someone doesn’t like is “Nazis”. insert circular accusation meme here Fact of the matter is that it is an unhealthy illusion that “the Nazis” were some kind of anomaly or extraordinary thing, and that perspective that they were is precisely being peoples minds up to the point that they cannot think clearly, let alone properly classify, order, and structure things in order to solve problems or even just deduce the underlying logic. Nothing about ethnic unity standing in opposition to a perceived enemy is in any way unique to any parameters. The plains tribes of what we call America would unite and overrun other tribes that they perceived as threats and resource competitors, and they would mercilessly slaughter and brutalize, rape, pillage, and kill. Genghis Khan may have been the single worst genocidal maniac in all of human history, even just by rough guesstimate (I don’t recall “the Nazis” launching rotten corpses full of botulism and thereby also causing the plague that killed hundreds of millions), and he also did it with what is effectively “national socialist”, i.e., unitedly working among and for one’s own nation, i.e., ethnicity. Or consider the Spanish who conquered and eradicated essentially all indigenous cultures on all of the Americas, largely including the ones the English are blamed for, even though it was the Hispanics, i.e., Spanish and Portuguese, who also eradicated and plundered and conquered the Americas for their own race/ethnicity/nation. Am I at all getting thought about the fact that “everything is Nazis” is a stunting mentality? “Nazis” didn’t somehow overtake and become imbued in America through “operation paperclip”, what the Nazis did for a relatively few years that was really not even nearly as awful as what had been done at that point and arguably since, considering we were supposed to have known better. We should have known better since “the Nazis”, correct? Never again auch atrocities, right? So how is it that not only has no one been held accountable for the destruction of Iraq under obvious and over lies, murdering somewhere around probably one million people and causing untold misery and devastation in people’s lives, but Assange, who exposed the atrocities is rotting in prison and very few people even care? People can’t see the atrocities and the awful people and their atrocities in front of them for all “the Nazis” occupying their minds … I argue, intentionally, by constant focus on “the Nazis”.
- CrackerNews 3y ago
  I agree. People confuse imperialism with Nazism too easily. It's not necessarily that society is controlled by Nazis, but that imperialism is considered (by Lenin) as the highest stage of an economic system driven by the continual growth of capital. To tie things back, the OP cites a liberal empire as a possible solution to the problem of US-style Dr. Mengeles, but I see the empire overriding the liberal in the first place. The focus on "the Nazis", absent of serious analysis of the philosophical context that gave rise to them, can end up ignoring what made people believe in the ideology in the first place. There's a particular mythological victimhood for Nazis where the only way to break free is to create their own empire to subjugate (and exterminate) who they viewed as parasites. This ends up being highly problematic when people groups are viewed essentially only as good as their stereotypical economic function. A liberal empire isn't concerned with rectifying people's economic function outside of markets and incentives. This leaves wiggle room for exploitation that lead to the US-style Dr. Mengeles experimenting on poor people (which also has a racial element since minorities can tend to be poorer.)
krapp 3y ago
[flagged]
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  > ... Nazism and related ideologies ... Prior to the Nazi's the ideology was called something else. Eugenics. Manifest Destiny. White Australia Policy. etc. German extremists bundled these together under their heinous flag and used it against their 'enemy', the Jewish people living in Europe at the time - but you are right that the eugenics and white supremacy movements came from, principally, American sources, and have been the motivation and justification for countless similar atrocities ever since the fall of the Nazis. The key thing is that the brand changed, but the effect remains the same: degradation and deterioration, if not outright extermination, of cultures deemed inferior to white, western ideals. We continue this outrageous ideology in the form of the "War on Terror", which is just Nazi ideology, rebranded for the pallets of a gullible, decadent, over-fed American public ... who would tear down the walls of the White House if it were to ever outright parade the swastika, but who are nevertheless patriotically inclined, as good robots are, to get behind whatever threat their mighty fighting men have determined is the Next Big Bad Guy™ ...
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
> genocide of inferior races for the sake of fundamentalist, totalitarian-authoritarian regimes, seeking lebensraum. (See: Syria, Iraq. Yemen) Baloney. Take Iraq, for example. Yes, we killed a lot of people, arguably for bad reasons. And then, we genocided the conquered people, made the country a US colony, transplanted our own people there, and took over the oil. Oh, wait, no we didn't. Your hyperventilating denunciation is a complete distortion of what actually happened in Iraq. We didn't go there for lebensraum. We didn't genocide an "inferior race". We didn't even go there to take their oil. You want to criticize American militarism and American foreign policy? Fine; go ahead. But at least criticize them for what they actually did, not for a complete strawman caricature.
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  [flagged]

gverrilla 3y ago

[flagged]

boffinAudio 3y ago
> Which is also the base for nazifascism. Indeed. The propagation of neo-Nazi ideology in the modern context depends on such ignorance. Ignorance and naivete are key ingredients in the modern neo-Nazi recipe. Shine the light of truth, they scurry. Give them a fortress protected by National Security Letters - they thrive.

davidguetta 3y ago

That's precisely the point of this article and the gotcha title: showing that Nazi-like horrors can be everywhere, including the USA