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> Or, we've noticed the above, thought that it was an outrage, and fixed it. Where can I read about the Nuremberg-style trials where the perpetrators of that o

by p-e-w 4y ago

> Or, we've noticed the above, thought that it was an outrage, and fixed it. Where can I read about the Nuremberg-style trials where the perpetrators of that outrage were brought to justice? Because if those trials didn't happen, we didn't "fix" anything.

Dah00n 4y ago
It is ironic that you mention Nuremberg trials as a way of justice against human experimentation. The people that did Bad Things in WW2 on the German and Japanese side were not tried in a court at all if the research they did seemed interesting enough to get in US hands. Those that did Bad Things on the US side we likely haven't even heard of, and they definitely weren't put through a court. When how interesting your research was were what made you innocent then it was a sham. Nuremberg was strictly a propaganda tool for the masses and had nothing to do with justice. If justice had a say most of the men that were imported to the US would all have been hanged.
- viciousvoxel 4y ago
  I agree with your first paragraph, but the statement that The Nuremberg Trials were only a propaganda tool is just false and an insult to those who brought many to justice. It certain was a propaganda tool as well but justice is not all-or-nothing. Certainly some justice was had.
josefx 4y ago
Even with Nuremberg style trials that would still only have been a PR stunt. German police still has yearly reports about the issues they have with right wing nuts and racism in the force. You would have to replace both the entire chain of command and institute checks to keep things from repeating, one alone is not enough.
- p-e-w 4y ago
  > that would still only have been a PR stunt I strongly disagree. Symbols matter, a lot. Such a mass trial (with potentially thousands of defendants – those doctors didn't cook up all of that by themselves, after all) would have sent a strong message that such behavior will not be tolerated under any circumstances, and that medical professionals and other authority figures who believe themselves to be above the law are gravely mistaken. What happened instead is that everything was swept under the rug and when it all became public, people were told that the profession had moved on and those things wouldn't happen anymore. Which sends the exact opposite message.
buran77 4y ago
The problem with generalizing across time and space is that you can never know where to draw the line. Taking your original comment as a starting point, who should not be trusted? American doctors? Americans? Doctors? Back then? Now? Forever? The past is an indicator, not the only indicator.

by p-e-w 4y ago

Dah00n 4y ago

It is ironic that you mention Nuremberg trials as a way of justice against human experimentation. The people that did Bad Things in WW2 on the German and Japanese side were not tried in a court at all if the research they did seemed interesting enough to get in US hands. Those that did Bad Things on the US side we likely haven't even heard of, and they definitely weren't put through a court. When how interesting your research was were what made you innocent then it was a sham. Nuremberg was strictly a propaganda tool for the masses and had nothing to do with justice. If justice had a say most of the men that were imported to the US would all have been hanged.

viciousvoxel 4y ago
I agree with your first paragraph, but the statement that The Nuremberg Trials were only a propaganda tool is just false and an insult to those who brought many to justice. It certain was a propaganda tool as well but justice is not all-or-nothing. Certainly some justice was had.

josefx 4y ago

Even with Nuremberg style trials that would still only have been a PR stunt. German police still has yearly reports about the issues they have with right wing nuts and racism in the force. You would have to replace both the entire chain of command and institute checks to keep things from repeating, one alone is not enough.

p-e-w 4y ago
> that would still only have been a PR stunt I strongly disagree. Symbols matter, a lot. Such a mass trial (with potentially thousands of defendants – those doctors didn't cook up all of that by themselves, after all) would have sent a strong message that such behavior will not be tolerated under any circumstances, and that medical professionals and other authority figures who believe themselves to be above the law are gravely mistaken. What happened instead is that everything was swept under the rug and when it all became public, people were told that the profession had moved on and those things wouldn't happen anymore. Which sends the exact opposite message.

buran77 4y ago

The problem with generalizing across time and space is that you can never know where to draw the line. Taking your original comment as a starting point, who should not be trusted? American doctors? Americans? Doctors? Back then? Now? Forever? The past is an indicator, not the only indicator.