4 ms·
> My coworker Damian Edwards and I hypothesize that there is another kind of developer than the ones we meet all the time. We call them Dark Matter Developers.
by dustedcodes 3y ago
> My coworker Damian Edwards and I hypothesize that there is another kind of developer than the ones we meet all the time. We call them Dark Matter Developers. They don't read a lot of blogs, they never write blogs, they don't go to user groups, they don't tweet or facebook, and you don't often see them at large conferences. Where are these dark matter developers online?
"another kind of developer than the ones we meet all the time" sounds incredibly condescending and wrong at the same time. We all meet them literally all the time. They are our co-workers. Never did I work in a team where the majority of my peers were avid conference speakers and bloggers, quite the opposite. It's just called normal human beings with hobbies other than only computers. They are not dark matter, because we can see them all the time. They are the norm, not an abnormality. This whole blog post has a tone to it which doesn't sit well with me.
> The Dark Matter Developer will never read this blog post because they are getting work done using tech from ten years ago and that's totally OK
That's incredibly judgemental. These are normal human beings who are not some mindless dumb people who don't do anything except work go home and sleep. They read posts like this and they don't necessarily use 10 year old tech as Hanselman suggests in his condensending ways. They are just not such a narcissists who need to sign up on every social media platform and constantly tweet about a shitty podcast and making shitty tiktoks to get a feeling of worth in their life. That is perhaps the only difference.
- politelemon 3y agoYou have a dislike of the author, and it shows, which is sad (and against the spirit of why we are here on HN). I did not pick up any such tone from the post, nor any sense of condescension. That might be you projecting. They've chosen a way to express, what to _us_ on social media platforms, are the people whose voices are not heard. If you have chosen to take that in bad faith, please take a step back.
- dustedcodes 3y agoI've explained why I think those are bad takes. Perhaps you are projecting on me something because you don't like my opinion. Also asking me to take a step back because you don't like my opinion is really against the spirit of why we are here on HN. People are allowed to express their views in comments as long as it's respectful. I think I articulated my points in strong but fair way and didn't say anything in particular about the author which makes it personal. However, you've made it now personal by accusing me of something unfounded without any proof. Perhaps you should take a step back and reflect on your own conduct.
- selimthegrim 3y agoHanselman did and does outreach for years, he wouldn't have kept that job if he were condescending the whole time.
- GlacierFox 3y agoI'm a fan of Hanselman but I think I get the gist of what you're saying. The post has an air of 'let's not forget about these strange specimens' when, like you, I'm under the opinion that the type of person he describes in the post are the norm. Scott is a fantastic teacher, I've learned a lot from listening to him and his podcasts. But at the same time, being in his position requires one to stay on the bleeding edge in some cases, to be able to teach newcomers emerging technologies and explain new features in Microsoft tech like ASP and C#. When you're surrounded by tech bloggers, social media and the like all day, I expect it to shape your view of what the wider development community actually looks like - even if you're in it. As you say, I feel the vast majority of us just go to work, go home then carry on with our lives. Perhaps pop our head over the fence one in a while if something truly earthshattering is happening.
- j_crick 3y agoYou’re accusing the comment author of something they didn’t commit. How perceiving condescension in a given paragraph of text is having “a dislike of the author” and “projecting”? If you didn’t detect something that somebody else felt, how does that invalidate somebody else’s opinions or feelings?
- Xenoamorphous 3y agoFWIW I also found it very condescending.
- yamtaddle 3y agoI found it funny. "Guys, did you know there are developers who are just developers and don't jump on the self-promotion-and-conference-speaker-train out of actually-writing-codeville at the first opportunity?! Shockingly, such people exist! They might—and you'll want to sit down for this—even not be bad at their jobs!"
- wmitty 3y agoThe article wasn't entirely condescending - sometimes it was patronizing instead.
- cameronh90 3y agoI like Hanselman but also think he's off base here. Some of that 99% are probably as he describes, but plenty are working on cool stuff with the latest tech, but just aren't into social media or conferences.
- ricardobeat 3y agoThis misunderstanding explains the animosity in the comments. Somehow using older tech is being conflated with being a lesser developer, and not being “cool”, when that’s kind of the opposite of the point of the post.
- strken 3y agoIt's bizarre to suggest not going to conferences or keeping a blog means you're stuck on VB6 (released in 1998, 14 years before the post was written). It doesn't not mean that, either. The two things are unrelated to each other. Scott Hanselman is projecting the world view conference-goers and blog-posters onto everyone else. He is obsessed with modernity, so everyone else must be using stable technology; he worries that his bleeding-edge tools are problems in need of a solution, so everyone else must be producing. In reality, any given 99% of developers is going to be using a diverse and varied mess of different technologies of varying maturity levels. I don't think it's animosity at being called a lesser developer, but rather a baffled sense of insult at the claim that 99% of any group can be homogenous enough to teach lessons. Imagine a car enthusiast who drives a Porsche 911 writing the same article about the "dark 99%" who drive proven vehicles like a Toyota Camry (sensible passenger car) or a Mack Titan (gigantic truck used for pulling 200 tonne road trains) and are out there transporting. It's just a really weird claim to make given that the differences between his 1% and absolutely everyone else are dwarfed by the massive internal differences within that 99%.
- jen20 3y ago> Scott Hanselman is projecting the world view conference-goers and blog-posters onto everyone else. He is obsessed with modernity Promoting adoption of the latest thing is the job of marketing, and his job for the past decade-or-more falls squarely into that category.
- rob74 3y agoOk, the GP may be over the top with their reaction, but the tone of condescension is definitely there. Just one example: > Or they are just totally chilling and punching out at 5:01pm, but I like to think they are producing ...because everyone knows that you can't be productive during normal business hours, right?
- mattgreenrocks 3y agoProbably some rationalization going on there: "those 5:01 devs might be productive, but, we who burn the midnight oil blogging about exciting new web frameworks are the REAL devs."
- whstl 3y agoPerhaps the reason you see these developers is because you're not in the bubble that Scott Hanselman and most of HN is inserted in. I don't really think this is exactly wrong given the context and audience. - "They are just not such a narcissists who need to sign up on every social media platform and constantly tweet about a shitty podcast and making shitty tiktoks to get a feeling of worth in their life." FYI, this is waaaaay more judgemental than what you quoted...
- oaiey 3y agoIndeed. Scott is a evangelist which promotes .NET. His circle are surely more in the blogger-sphere, conference speakers, presentation cycle etc. I am pretty sure that he has some deep connections (e.g. to the .NET team itself) but most likely not as a co-worker.
- uoaei 3y agoIt seems like a sign of poor judgment to 1) assume you're not in a bubble and 2) to confidently and extensively opine about truths about the world that you can't observe.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tgv 3y ago> That's incredibly judgemental. I read the post initially as mocking the self-importance of the "1%". Also a bit judgemental, TBH, but in a friendly way. Who cares about what Scott Hanselman thinks, right? But the later parts indeed trend towards patronizing.
- digging 3y agoI'm put off by the entire classification system. I suppose I'm someone who rarely fits into classification systems anyway, but I don't think I'm so atypical here by: - occasionally reading a link from HN - regularly reading discussions on HN - occasionally reading other tech blogs - never going to conferences - never blogging about programming - almost never coding in my free time (but doing other hobbies instead) Am I in the 1% of visible programmers? I absolutely do not think so, largely because I don't blog or talk about tech. But I'm also not in some kind of weird sheltered place where I have no idea what's going on.
- ghaff 3y agoMy guess would be that's pretty typical of an enterprise programmer, especially if you replace "never" with once in a blue moon and perhaps exclude people who are active in open source development.
- mock-possum 3y ago> The Dark Matter Developer will never read this blog post because they are getting work done If we cut things off there it becomes a statement I find much more palatable. Not everybody has the luxury of spending time thinking and talking about code - most of us spend that time writing code. Not that no one ever benefits from thinking and talking - quite the opposite - but the reality is, most employers don't want to pay most of their employees to perform that work. They'd prefer it be limited to a senior developer or manager role.