5 ms·

If you're not DevOps, why bother learning whatever framework is used today, but which will be replaced by something else next year? I just want to get my stuff

by rolisz 3y ago

If you're not DevOps, why bother learning whatever framework is used today, but which will be replaced by something else next year? I just want to get my stuff deployed and that's it.

ChatGTP 3y ago
Yeah that’s true, why bother actually knowing anything about the systems they run your software /s
- rolisz 3y ago
  I have a finite amount of time. I can choose to learn and know more about the software that I'm developing and make the software better, or I can spend some amount of time to learn the DevOps part, or some mix in between. In some cases, the ratio is 90:10 in favor of software development.
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    Is nginx hard to understand or something ? in surprised how few services developers I’ve encountered who don’t know hot to configure a web sever or LB.
    - burnished 3y ago
      Yeah honestly when I took a stab at it a couple years ago it was frustrating - all the material I ran into told you what to do but not why which left me high and dry when things didnt work as expected, or when I wanted to find more information about the meaning and organization of directories or other contextual background information.
- falcor84 3y ago
  Here's a thought experiment - seeing how software problems are often people problems, how knowledgeable should we expect a software engineer to be about biochemistry (the systems that "run" people)?
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    Nginx for a developer vs biochemistry though ? That’s a leap.
input_sh 3y ago
Saying that DevOps tooling changes every year is absolute nonsense. The tooling is fairly standardised nowadays (Docker, Kubernetes, Ansible, Terraform, Prometheus, CI/CD tool of your choice) and every part of it is over half a decade old. ChatGPT will only help you with the simplest of tasks, and even then you're gonna fail if you don't know to correct it. If you go beyond the most basic of the tasks you can learn how to do in a few hours, good luck fitting them in a chat prompt.
- rolisz 3y ago
  The comolexity of Docker I've needed over the last 5 years definitely could have been solved by ChatGPT. The amount of Kubernetes I needed was probably more than what ChatGPT can solve, but at the same time, I spent an awful amount of time looking at various templating solutions.
- duckmysick 3y ago
  I'm not sure about standardized tooling. Docker is being replaced with Podman. Supposedly a drop-in replacement, but the tools built for Docker don't play nicely. You have Ansible, but there's also Puppet, Salt, Chef. There's Terraform and also CDKTF (from the same company too), Pulumi, plus tools from each cloud provider. There's Prometheus and Nagios, Datadog, Sentry, New Relic. The irony of CI/CD tool of your choice is not lost on me. I'll give you Kubernetes itself as the system. Yes, the concepts (containers, orchestration, reproducible deployment, infrastructure as code, unified monitoring, continuous integration) are well-established. How you get there? Not at all. Yes, the OP was hyperbolic when claimed the tools change every year. But the landscape of devop tools is changing. There are dozens of dev tool companies funded in the 2023 winter batch of Y Combinator alone. Someone sees potential to disrupt the established tools. And it will be disrupted. There was a world before Kubernetes and Terraform. It wasn't that long ago. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies?batch=W23&tags=Developer%20Tools https://www.ycombinator.com/companies?batch=W23&tags=Develop...
- sebastiennight 3y ago
  Well, you say > Saying that DevOps tooling changes every year is absolute nonsense. And then you list 5 technologies with an alleged lifespan of half a decade, which sort of hints at the idea that someone would need to learn/update a new tooling skillset once a year. In that light, GP's comment doesn't sound so wild.

by rolisz 3y ago

If you're not DevOps, why bother learning whatever framework is used today, but which will be replaced by something else next year? I just want to get my stuff deployed and that's it.

ChatGTP 3y ago

Yeah that’s true, why bother actually knowing anything about the systems they run your software /s

rolisz 3y ago
I have a finite amount of time. I can choose to learn and know more about the software that I'm developing and make the software better, or I can spend some amount of time to learn the DevOps part, or some mix in between. In some cases, the ratio is 90:10 in favor of software development.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Is nginx hard to understand or something ? in surprised how few services developers I’ve encountered who don’t know hot to configure a web sever or LB.
  - burnished 3y ago
    Yeah honestly when I took a stab at it a couple years ago it was frustrating - all the material I ran into told you what to do but not why which left me high and dry when things didnt work as expected, or when I wanted to find more information about the meaning and organization of directories or other contextual background information.
falcor84 3y ago
Here's a thought experiment - seeing how software problems are often people problems, how knowledgeable should we expect a software engineer to be about biochemistry (the systems that "run" people)?
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Nginx for a developer vs biochemistry though ? That’s a leap.

input_sh 3y ago

Saying that DevOps tooling changes every year is absolute nonsense. The tooling is fairly standardised nowadays (Docker, Kubernetes, Ansible, Terraform, Prometheus, CI/CD tool of your choice) and every part of it is over half a decade old. ChatGPT will only help you with the simplest of tasks, and even then you're gonna fail if you don't know to correct it. If you go beyond the most basic of the tasks you can learn how to do in a few hours, good luck fitting them in a chat prompt.

rolisz 3y ago
The comolexity of Docker I've needed over the last 5 years definitely could have been solved by ChatGPT. The amount of Kubernetes I needed was probably more than what ChatGPT can solve, but at the same time, I spent an awful amount of time looking at various templating solutions.
duckmysick 3y ago
I'm not sure about standardized tooling. Docker is being replaced with Podman. Supposedly a drop-in replacement, but the tools built for Docker don't play nicely. You have Ansible, but there's also Puppet, Salt, Chef. There's Terraform and also CDKTF (from the same company too), Pulumi, plus tools from each cloud provider. There's Prometheus and Nagios, Datadog, Sentry, New Relic. The irony of CI/CD tool of your choice is not lost on me. I'll give you Kubernetes itself as the system. Yes, the concepts (containers, orchestration, reproducible deployment, infrastructure as code, unified monitoring, continuous integration) are well-established. How you get there? Not at all. Yes, the OP was hyperbolic when claimed the tools change every year. But the landscape of devop tools is changing. There are dozens of dev tool companies funded in the 2023 winter batch of Y Combinator alone. Someone sees potential to disrupt the established tools. And it will be disrupted. There was a world before Kubernetes and Terraform. It wasn't that long ago. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies?batch=W23&tags=Developer%20Tools https://www.ycombinator.com/companies?batch=W23&tags=Develop...
sebastiennight 3y ago
Well, you say > Saying that DevOps tooling changes every year is absolute nonsense. And then you list 5 technologies with an alleged lifespan of half a decade, which sort of hints at the idea that someone would need to learn/update a new tooling skillset once a year. In that light, GP's comment doesn't sound so wild.