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As article says it just reiterates well known aspect of LLMs. It is quite fundamental though. Once those networks get efficient inner monologue built in it's

As article says it just reiterates well known aspect of LLMs. It is quite fundamental though. Once those networks get efficient inner monologue built in it's going to be very hard to argue against them being conscious. Once we see "Deep thinking networks", "Inner monologue is all you need" etc. articles - that's the true time to start to be scared of implications as they'll be extremely powerful and will be able to perfectly mimic humans.

ttul 4y ago
Or as Hinton suggested today, they will have superior ways of thinking.
albertgoeswoof 4y ago
> Once those networks get efficient inner monologue built in And how, exactly, do we do this? Train the LLM on all of its own output?
- seydor 4y ago
  2 llms talking to each other and observing their weights
  - taneq 4y ago
    BicameraLLM(tm) ;)
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    "But do you even lift bro?" "You don't even know my weight."
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  Inner monologue ability is not training ability, it's architecture, runtime ability.
visarga 4y ago
So you define consciousness as something with an inner monologue? I define it as perception/imagination coloured by the estimation of future rewards.
- seydor 4y ago
  each of us can make a definition, and an AI could try to mimic most of them. at that point it would be convincingly 'conscious'
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  Consciousness is awareness of itself. Inner monologue is self referential. If you can simulate it you will not be able to distinguish real one from simulated one similar to how you can't distinguish native speaker's translation from machine translation using black box test. At this point - does it mean anything if something is "real" or "simulated"? If your only test is black box test where you can't distinguish black boxes anymore - your testing method is exhausted. Perception, imagination, future reward estimation can be inspected by dumping inner dialogue - it's a subset of things people are already looking at to evaluate overall performance in one shot examples. It's when those things gain inner loop ability where it gets interesting.
  - braindead_in 4y ago
    > Consciousness is awareness of itself. Inner monologue is self referential. ChatGPT is definitely aware that it exists. In humans, the self-referential inner monologue activates when the mind is idle. The Default Mode Network is responsible for that processing. Can it be that ChatGPT is "thinking" when it's idle as well?
    - mirekrusin 4y ago
      I think you're conflating self-awareness with self-...acknowledgement? Ie. python script foo.py that prints content of ./foo.py is not self aware. Self awareness needs notion of time and self referential memory. ChatGPT doesn't exist when it's idle. It's activated when transforming input into next potential token (list of tokens with probabilities). Ie. it's just sophisticated pure function mapping input -> list of tokens with probabilities. What's incredible is that it actually works when you keep repeating it. Notion of thinking time doesn't exist for it. It can for example branch in the middle. You can calculate one token in this data-center, next one on another continent etc.
seydor 4y ago
i dont know if that will make them more powerful, but they ll certainly be more recognizable as humans I wonder if they will also recognize each other as such, or if they can attribute the concept we call consciousness to us, in the same way we would do to them.
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  Interesting thing is that it's not hard to see that they'll be much more conscious than us. Our communication method of single threaded thought articulated as ie. stream of ascii characters or sound through spoken language is extremely inefficient. Computers can communicate in binary form, in parallel and many orders of magnitude higher information rate. We're debilitating them for external i/o communication so we, humans, can interface with them. They'll be able to communicate at rate that is very hard to imagine for us that is closer to "left hand and right hand" communication through brain than "one human, other human" communication.

ttul 4y ago

Or as Hinton suggested today, they will have superior ways of thinking.

albertgoeswoof 4y ago

> Once those networks get efficient inner monologue built in And how, exactly, do we do this? Train the LLM on all of its own output?

seydor 4y ago
2 llms talking to each other and observing their weights
- taneq 4y ago
  BicameraLLM(tm) ;)
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  "But do you even lift bro?" "You don't even know my weight."
mirekrusin 4y ago
Inner monologue ability is not training ability, it's architecture, runtime ability.

visarga 4y ago

So you define consciousness as something with an inner monologue? I define it as perception/imagination coloured by the estimation of future rewards.

seydor 4y ago
each of us can make a definition, and an AI could try to mimic most of them. at that point it would be convincingly 'conscious'
mirekrusin 4y ago
Consciousness is awareness of itself. Inner monologue is self referential. If you can simulate it you will not be able to distinguish real one from simulated one similar to how you can't distinguish native speaker's translation from machine translation using black box test. At this point - does it mean anything if something is "real" or "simulated"? If your only test is black box test where you can't distinguish black boxes anymore - your testing method is exhausted. Perception, imagination, future reward estimation can be inspected by dumping inner dialogue - it's a subset of things people are already looking at to evaluate overall performance in one shot examples. It's when those things gain inner loop ability where it gets interesting.
- braindead_in 4y ago
  > Consciousness is awareness of itself. Inner monologue is self referential. ChatGPT is definitely aware that it exists. In humans, the self-referential inner monologue activates when the mind is idle. The Default Mode Network is responsible for that processing. Can it be that ChatGPT is "thinking" when it's idle as well?
  - mirekrusin 4y ago
    I think you're conflating self-awareness with self-...acknowledgement? Ie. python script foo.py that prints content of ./foo.py is not self aware. Self awareness needs notion of time and self referential memory. ChatGPT doesn't exist when it's idle. It's activated when transforming input into next potential token (list of tokens with probabilities). Ie. it's just sophisticated pure function mapping input -> list of tokens with probabilities. What's incredible is that it actually works when you keep repeating it. Notion of thinking time doesn't exist for it. It can for example branch in the middle. You can calculate one token in this data-center, next one on another continent etc.

seydor 4y ago

i dont know if that will make them more powerful, but they ll certainly be more recognizable as humans I wonder if they will also recognize each other as such, or if they can attribute the concept we call consciousness to us, in the same way we would do to them.

mirekrusin 4y ago
Interesting thing is that it's not hard to see that they'll be much more conscious than us. Our communication method of single threaded thought articulated as ie. stream of ascii characters or sound through spoken language is extremely inefficient. Computers can communicate in binary form, in parallel and many orders of magnitude higher information rate. We're debilitating them for external i/o communication so we, humans, can interface with them. They'll be able to communicate at rate that is very hard to imagine for us that is closer to "left hand and right hand" communication through brain than "one human, other human" communication.