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Interactive World History Atlas

25 points by brokencode 3y ago

KineticLensman 3y ago
Perhaps I'm missing something, but my problem with this is that if you go back to 1AD, then most of the world is blank, e.g. suggesting that there was no history in Africa and N and S America.
- shipman05 3y ago
  "there was no history in Africa and N and S America" By most definitions of history that is a true statement. Wonderful and rich civilizations may have filled those blanks areas, but if there were no written accounts that survive to the modern day (or at the very least oral traditions that were eventually written down), they are by definition "pre-historic". The study of those peoples is left to the realm of archaeology and anthropology, not history. We know even less about those pre-historic civilizations that built using materials that do not stand the test of time (wood, thatch, mud, etc).
  - brokencode 3y ago
    That’s part of what I find so fascinating about this map. It’s amazing to see how little we know about the world as it was even 2000 years ago.
    - KineticLensman 3y ago
      But we do know, it's just not shown on this page! E.g. the Mayan and Aztec civilisations. There is a massive amount of history than can be traced to the physical structures they built. One cannot seriously claim that there was no History in Britain until the Romans arrived (or that nothing was / is known about it), which is what this map suggests. The ancient Greek Pytheas [0] visited Britain in approx 330 BC. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas
      - brokencode 3y ago
        It shows labels in the regions, just not borders. I’m assuming this is because the exact borders are unknown. Try zooming in more to see the labels.
      - shipman05 3y ago
        The map clearly shows Mayan and Teotihuacanan civilizations in pre-colonial eras. Is the map perfect? Of course not, but I'm confused by your insistence that it's ignoring Mayan and Aztec civilizations when it plainly shows them and their predecessors.
  - KineticLensman 3y ago
    > but if there were no written accounts that survive to the modern day There were plenty of written histories outside Europe at 1AD. E.g. the Mayan civilisation [0]. Their counting system has been traced back to 1000BC. > The study of those peoples is left to the realm of archaeology and anthropology, not history There is still no excuse for pretty much the whole of America being blank until about the 15th Century. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Writing_and_literacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Writing_and_...
    - brokencode 3y ago
      It’s not blank. Zoom in to see the labels for different cultures on the map. There just aren’t any defined borders.
    - shipman05 3y ago
      No disagreement, but from what I can tell the map does indeed show Mesoamerican civilizations for which we have written records.
thriftwy 3y ago
So in 2022, nothing happened in Ukraine, and in 2020, nothing happened in Azerbaijan. They don't show Crimea as Ukrainian controlled, at least. I like how they have delimiting lines for Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but not coloring. Same for Kosovo. Nothing of significance has ever happened in Bosnia. Apparently, in 1984 Turkey has deoccupied North Cyprus. Taiwan is China, nothing to see here. Makes me think this map is ill-suited to display late XX century conflicts onwards.
- brokencode 3y ago
  It shows China and Taiwan as the same color, but they are labeled separately. This is technically correct as far as I’m aware, as both the PRC and ROC claim that they are the legitimate government of both China and Taiwan. China and Taiwan are operated with separate governments and are effectively separate countries, but politically it’s quite a mess. Few countries recognize Taiwan as a separate country from China officially, even if that’s what they believe off the record.
- trilbyglens 3y ago
  Not everything needs to be a political statement. This is a tool for exploring historical maps, not tracking real time modern geopolitics.
trilbyglens 3y ago
This is amazingly cool. People complaining that it's not utterly complete need to get a life. This is a very cool project.

25 points by brokencode 3y ago

Perhaps I'm missing something, but my problem with this is that if you go back to 1AD, then most of the world is blank, e.g. suggesting that there was no history in Africa and N and S America.

shipman05 3y ago
"there was no history in Africa and N and S America" By most definitions of history that is a true statement. Wonderful and rich civilizations may have filled those blanks areas, but if there were no written accounts that survive to the modern day (or at the very least oral traditions that were eventually written down), they are by definition "pre-historic". The study of those peoples is left to the realm of archaeology and anthropology, not history. We know even less about those pre-historic civilizations that built using materials that do not stand the test of time (wood, thatch, mud, etc).
- brokencode 3y ago
  That’s part of what I find so fascinating about this map. It’s amazing to see how little we know about the world as it was even 2000 years ago.
  - KineticLensman 3y ago
    But we do know, it's just not shown on this page! E.g. the Mayan and Aztec civilisations. There is a massive amount of history than can be traced to the physical structures they built. One cannot seriously claim that there was no History in Britain until the Romans arrived (or that nothing was / is known about it), which is what this map suggests. The ancient Greek Pytheas [0] visited Britain in approx 330 BC. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas
    - brokencode 3y ago
      It shows labels in the regions, just not borders. I’m assuming this is because the exact borders are unknown. Try zooming in more to see the labels.
    - shipman05 3y ago
      The map clearly shows Mayan and Teotihuacanan civilizations in pre-colonial eras. Is the map perfect? Of course not, but I'm confused by your insistence that it's ignoring Mayan and Aztec civilizations when it plainly shows them and their predecessors.
- KineticLensman 3y ago
  > but if there were no written accounts that survive to the modern day There were plenty of written histories outside Europe at 1AD. E.g. the Mayan civilisation [0]. Their counting system has been traced back to 1000BC. > The study of those peoples is left to the realm of archaeology and anthropology, not history There is still no excuse for pretty much the whole of America being blank until about the 15th Century. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Writing_and_literacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Writing_and_...
  - brokencode 3y ago
    It’s not blank. Zoom in to see the labels for different cultures on the map. There just aren’t any defined borders.
  - shipman05 3y ago
    No disagreement, but from what I can tell the map does indeed show Mesoamerican civilizations for which we have written records.

thriftwy 3y ago

So in 2022, nothing happened in Ukraine, and in 2020, nothing happened in Azerbaijan. They don't show Crimea as Ukrainian controlled, at least. I like how they have delimiting lines for Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but not coloring. Same for Kosovo. Nothing of significance has ever happened in Bosnia. Apparently, in 1984 Turkey has deoccupied North Cyprus. Taiwan is China, nothing to see here. Makes me think this map is ill-suited to display late XX century conflicts onwards.

brokencode 3y ago
It shows China and Taiwan as the same color, but they are labeled separately. This is technically correct as far as I’m aware, as both the PRC and ROC claim that they are the legitimate government of both China and Taiwan. China and Taiwan are operated with separate governments and are effectively separate countries, but politically it’s quite a mess. Few countries recognize Taiwan as a separate country from China officially, even if that’s what they believe off the record.
trilbyglens 3y ago
Not everything needs to be a political statement. This is a tool for exploring historical maps, not tracking real time modern geopolitics.

trilbyglens 3y ago

This is amazingly cool. People complaining that it's not utterly complete need to get a life. This is a very cool project.