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You have the same issue with nuclear as it cannot load-follow and technical issues can lead to massive shutdowns like in France last year. There exist several

You have the same issue with nuclear as it cannot load-follow and technical issues can lead to massive shutdowns like in France last year. There exist several answers that have to be combined: Using biogas to load-follow. Currently biogas produces around 8% of electricity but mostly as base-load. Directing the use of electricity. This was already done to deal with nuclear‘s similar issue by offering cheaper prices in the night. With smart meters we can offer hourly based billing. Batteries for intra-day storage is already getting deployed as it’s already economical and we will see much more in the future. For seasonal low-points we will probably first continue to use gas but in a much smaller quantity if the other points also get deployed. At some point hydrogen will make sense.

bob_theslob646 3y ago
I'm sorry this is incredibly misleading. " Load following" ? Nuclear power is the most reliable and consistent energy source in the world. It's not even close! If you are going to spew garage, please cite it. This isn't reddit. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), the average capacity factor (which measures the actual electricity output of a power plant compared to its maximum potential output) for nuclear power plants around the world was 81% in 2019. This is higher than most other types of power plants, including coal-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 53% in 2019) and natural gas-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 46% in 2019). The reason why there were "massive shutdowns" was because they didn't do maintenance during COVID as well as noticed abnormal corrosion. Regarding uptime, heres some data. Nuclear Reactor Up Time. User What is the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France? ChatGPT As of my knowledge cutoff date of September 2021, the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France was about 75%, according to data from the French electricity company EDF. This means that, on average, the reactors were operational and producing electricity for about 75% of the time. However, it's important to note that this figure can vary from year to year and from reactor to reactor, depending on factors such as maintenance schedules, unexpected shutdowns, and other issues User Can you cite your sources for uptime of nuclear power in France? chatGPT Sure, here are some sources for the uptime of nuclear power in France: According to the French electricity company EDF, the average availability rate for its nuclear fleet in 2020 was 75.9%. Source: https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclear-power-plants/the-operational-performance-of-the-nuclear-fleet https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclea... The World Nuclear Association also reports an average capacity factor (uptime) for nuclear power plants in France of 73.3% in 2019. Source: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr... The French government's Ministry of Ecological Transition provides a quarterly report on the performance of the country's electricity generation sources, including nuclear power. The latest report, covering Q4 2020, states that the availability rate for the nuclear fleet during that period was 71.2%. Source: https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance_Energetique_electrique_T4_2020.pdf https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance... Sources for other statements. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-shutdown-of-nuclear-reactors-over-corrosion-amid-rising-energy-prices https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-... https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-reactors-will-not-work-as-normal-any-time-soon https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-...
- legulere 3y ago
  Electricity use isn’t constant throughout the day or the week, so you also have to produce less. This is called load following and a good thing. Nuclear reactors are pretty bad at it, but if you have a lot of nuclear reactors like France does you have to do it anyway, which is why France has a lower capacity factor for nuclear than other countries. For fossil-fuel- and biogas-driven plants a low capacity factor usually isn’t a big problem as fuel costs dominate. For nuclear fixed costs mostly dominate which means that a low capacity factor also means much higher costs.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    Nuclear plants can load follow just fine. They just prefer not to as the capital costs and not fuel is biggest factor. So might as well keep producing power if the grid stability accepts it.
pclmulqdq 3y ago
You don't have to load-follow when you can use the power to mine bitcoins. /s In all seriousness, nuclear power plants are also very controllable within a certain bound, you just can't turn them completely off or else they take a long time to turn back on. Control of power output is what reactor control rods are for. Coal power is similar - you can control the temperature of the boiler but you can't stop the turbine completely if you want to turn it back on any time soon.
- legulere 3y ago
  Nuclear costs are predominantly fixed costs though. Reducing output makes electricity from nuclear even more expensive. On top of that it leads to faster deterioration.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    You're busy looking for a perfect solution where there is none. The same arguments about upfront costs and usage-based depreciation apply to batteries, too, for example. They would apply to coal and natural gas plants too except that their fuel is really expensive per kWh.
Georgelemental 3y ago
> biogas If your objective is to eliminate carbon emissions, this won't do that. I'm not a purist though, if a small amount of natural gas or biogas needs to be burned at peak load that's not a huge deal. > Batteries for intra-day storage What do you do when cloudy + no wind lasts for much more than a day (as can happen in winter)?

bob_theslob646 3y ago

I'm sorry this is incredibly misleading. " Load following" ? Nuclear power is the most reliable and consistent energy source in the world. It's not even close! If you are going to spew garage, please cite it. This isn't reddit. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), the average capacity factor (which measures the actual electricity output of a power plant compared to its maximum potential output) for nuclear power plants around the world was 81% in 2019. This is higher than most other types of power plants, including coal-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 53% in 2019) and natural gas-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 46% in 2019). The reason why there were "massive shutdowns" was because they didn't do maintenance during COVID as well as noticed abnormal corrosion. Regarding uptime, heres some data. Nuclear Reactor Up Time. User What is the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France? ChatGPT As of my knowledge cutoff date of September 2021, the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France was about 75%, according to data from the French electricity company EDF. This means that, on average, the reactors were operational and producing electricity for about 75% of the time. However, it's important to note that this figure can vary from year to year and from reactor to reactor, depending on factors such as maintenance schedules, unexpected shutdowns, and other issues User Can you cite your sources for uptime of nuclear power in France? chatGPT Sure, here are some sources for the uptime of nuclear power in France: According to the French electricity company EDF, the average availability rate for its nuclear fleet in 2020 was 75.9%. Source: https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclear-power-plants/the-operational-performance-of-the-nuclear-fleet https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclea... The World Nuclear Association also reports an average capacity factor (uptime) for nuclear power plants in France of 73.3% in 2019. Source: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr... The French government's Ministry of Ecological Transition provides a quarterly report on the performance of the country's electricity generation sources, including nuclear power. The latest report, covering Q4 2020, states that the availability rate for the nuclear fleet during that period was 71.2%. Source: https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance_Energetique_electrique_T4_2020.pdf https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance... Sources for other statements. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-shutdown-of-nuclear-reactors-over-corrosion-amid-rising-energy-prices https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-... https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-reactors-will-not-work-as-normal-any-time-soon https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-...

legulere 3y ago
Electricity use isn’t constant throughout the day or the week, so you also have to produce less. This is called load following and a good thing. Nuclear reactors are pretty bad at it, but if you have a lot of nuclear reactors like France does you have to do it anyway, which is why France has a lower capacity factor for nuclear than other countries. For fossil-fuel- and biogas-driven plants a low capacity factor usually isn’t a big problem as fuel costs dominate. For nuclear fixed costs mostly dominate which means that a low capacity factor also means much higher costs.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Nuclear plants can load follow just fine. They just prefer not to as the capital costs and not fuel is biggest factor. So might as well keep producing power if the grid stability accepts it.

pclmulqdq 3y ago

You don't have to load-follow when you can use the power to mine bitcoins. /s In all seriousness, nuclear power plants are also very controllable within a certain bound, you just can't turn them completely off or else they take a long time to turn back on. Control of power output is what reactor control rods are for. Coal power is similar - you can control the temperature of the boiler but you can't stop the turbine completely if you want to turn it back on any time soon.

legulere 3y ago
Nuclear costs are predominantly fixed costs though. Reducing output makes electricity from nuclear even more expensive. On top of that it leads to faster deterioration.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  You're busy looking for a perfect solution where there is none. The same arguments about upfront costs and usage-based depreciation apply to batteries, too, for example. They would apply to coal and natural gas plants too except that their fuel is really expensive per kWh.

Georgelemental 3y ago

> biogas If your objective is to eliminate carbon emissions, this won't do that. I'm not a purist though, if a small amount of natural gas or biogas needs to be burned at peak load that's not a huge deal. > Batteries for intra-day storage What do you do when cloudy + no wind lasts for much more than a day (as can happen in winter)?