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> The ultimate root cause that generates socialist ideals is not the plight of the workers or anything so surface-level, it's the intuition that intellectuals s
by csb6 3y ago
> The ultimate root cause that generates socialist ideals is not the plight of the workers or anything so surface-level, it's the intuition that intellectuals should run society.
This is not the case. Marx and other writers repeatedly emphasize that the working class itself must take power and begin the process of getting rid of social classes altogether. They definitely did not advocate for a society run by highly educated intellectuals from the top-down. See “The Civil War in France”, where Marx discusses the Paris Commune - a working class uprising that was not lead by intellectuals.
> socialism appeals to people who like the sound of the abstract ideas of intellectuals. If an intellectual posits a clever-sounding reorganization of society justified by high minded ideals, then this feels right to the socialist mind.
This is just a description of zealotry and overoptimism in general - attitudes than can be found among proponents of any framework. Marx himself criticized earlier utopian socialist thinkers for trying to plan out an idealized society from their armchairs, rather than actively organizing with workers to create a better one. He saw theory and practice as deeply connected, and he definitely was not a utopian thinker.
> the way to cure all social ills is so simple it can be summed up in a single book or set of pamphlets. It can be understood and reorganized by a single mind.
Marx didn’t believe this. He was a prolific author and corresponded with many other contemporary socialist writers. He published a whole series of books just focused on analyzing capitalism, and he died before completing them. There is a wealth of Marxist writing and many conflicting strands - there is no “one mind” or “one committee” with the final say.
> Why would you not plan it? The only possible justification would be if the planning process was too hard, but that would imply that society was too complex for any one mind or even a committee of minds to fully understand, and if you believed that, you wouldn't be a communist to begin with.
There is a whole area of thought known as market socialism that rejects both capitalism and central planning. Central planning is not fundamental to socialism; it is simply one kind of economic strategy that could be used by a socialist society.
I would encourage you read accounts of socialist thought besides those written by a deeply conservative economist. Marx himself can be challenging to read, but David Harvey has a book called “A Companion to Marx's Capital” that helps explain some of the context.
- revelio 3y ago> Marx and other writers repeatedly emphasize that the working class itself must take power [...] He saw theory and practice as deeply connected Marx wrote a lot of things. How many times did this champion of the working class visit a factory? How much time did he spend in working men's clubs, talking to the miners? Did he ever go down a mine to investigate conditions for himself? Did he form a political party to try and put his ideas into practice? If you read a biography of him you'll find the answer to all these questions is no. His friend Engels even offered to give him a tour of the factory he conveniently happened to own, and Marx didn't bother taking him up on it. He didn't need to, for he'd already learned everything he needed to know about the world from books written by other people. And thus he devoted his life to ... writing more books. > Marx didn’t believe [society is simple]. Sure he did! He was advocating revolutionary violence to implement his ideas despite not having worked out the details of what a communist state would actually look like. His books focused almost entirely on why capitalism should be abolished, not what would replace it. To him, it was easy peasy. Overthrow the ruling classes by organizing a class of "professional revolutionaries", get them to take power then put the working classes in charge, everything is now great. Done. > There is a whole area of thought known as market socialism that rejects both capitalism and central planning There are books that contain every possible permutation of social concepts, but that doesn't mean they make sense or any significant number of people believe them. In practice there is no such thing as anarcho-communism beyond, perhaps, tiny groups of people who live in tents. And even then, it doesn't last. Invariably someone takes power and then starts issuing plans that have to be obeyed.
- Kbelicius 3y ago> Marx wrote a lot of things. How many times did this champion of the working class visit a factory? How much time did he spend in working men's clubs, talking to the miners? Did he ever go down a mine to investigate conditions for himself? Did he form a political party to try and put his ideas into practice? And how does all of this translate to him thinking that intellectuals should run society? Also, he was politically active, but you know that since you read his biography...
- 3y ago