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How so? They are proposing renewables as an alternative, not fossil fuels. Renewables can be constructed faster and cheaper than nuclear and are the clear winn

How so? They are proposing renewables as an alternative, not fossil fuels. Renewables can be constructed faster and cheaper than nuclear and are the clear winner of the future.

Georgelemental 3y ago
Renewables (wind and solar) are intermittent. The storage technology to make them reliable without a backup source of power generation, does not yet exist at the scale that would be needed. For now, any viable plan for full decarbonization must include nuclear.
- cubefox 3y ago
  Yes, wind and solar are highly volatile; coal, nuclear and natural gas are not. When they decided to disable nuclear power, they wanted to replace it with natural gas from Russia (that's why they promoted Nord Stream 2), since it produces less CO2 than coal, but those gas deliveries were largely cut off because of the Ukraine war. So now only coal is left as a stable energy source.
  - legulere 3y ago
    Before making claims, please look up numbers. In the same period nuclear was shut off in Germany coal-use also went down. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutsch...
    - cubefox 3y ago
      So what? Coal went down much less than it would have if nuclear wasn't disabled.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- rcxdude 3y ago
  The storage technology to make nuclear cost-effective also does not yet exist, as demand is also not constant. Nuclear is a pretty bad complement to renewables on a grid: it loses terribly to renewables in a free market, relying on subsidies to get built and operate, and also does not actually make up for the intemittency of renewables. People keep saying that we need both but frankly it's one or the other.
- legulere 3y ago
  You have the same issue with nuclear as it cannot load-follow and technical issues can lead to massive shutdowns like in France last year. There exist several answers that have to be combined: Using biogas to load-follow. Currently biogas produces around 8% of electricity but mostly as base-load. Directing the use of electricity. This was already done to deal with nuclear‘s similar issue by offering cheaper prices in the night. With smart meters we can offer hourly based billing. Batteries for intra-day storage is already getting deployed as it’s already economical and we will see much more in the future. For seasonal low-points we will probably first continue to use gas but in a much smaller quantity if the other points also get deployed. At some point hydrogen will make sense.
  - bob_theslob646 3y ago
    I'm sorry this is incredibly misleading. " Load following" ? Nuclear power is the most reliable and consistent energy source in the world. It's not even close! If you are going to spew garage, please cite it. This isn't reddit. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), the average capacity factor (which measures the actual electricity output of a power plant compared to its maximum potential output) for nuclear power plants around the world was 81% in 2019. This is higher than most other types of power plants, including coal-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 53% in 2019) and natural gas-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 46% in 2019). The reason why there were "massive shutdowns" was because they didn't do maintenance during COVID as well as noticed abnormal corrosion. Regarding uptime, heres some data. Nuclear Reactor Up Time. User What is the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France? ChatGPT As of my knowledge cutoff date of September 2021, the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France was about 75%, according to data from the French electricity company EDF. This means that, on average, the reactors were operational and producing electricity for about 75% of the time. However, it's important to note that this figure can vary from year to year and from reactor to reactor, depending on factors such as maintenance schedules, unexpected shutdowns, and other issues User Can you cite your sources for uptime of nuclear power in France? chatGPT Sure, here are some sources for the uptime of nuclear power in France: According to the French electricity company EDF, the average availability rate for its nuclear fleet in 2020 was 75.9%. Source: https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclear-power-plants/the-operational-performance-of-the-nuclear-fleet https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclea... The World Nuclear Association also reports an average capacity factor (uptime) for nuclear power plants in France of 73.3% in 2019. Source: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr... The French government's Ministry of Ecological Transition provides a quarterly report on the performance of the country's electricity generation sources, including nuclear power. The latest report, covering Q4 2020, states that the availability rate for the nuclear fleet during that period was 71.2%. Source: https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance_Energetique_electrique_T4_2020.pdf https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance... Sources for other statements. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-shutdown-of-nuclear-reactors-over-corrosion-amid-rising-energy-prices https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-... https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-reactors-will-not-work-as-normal-any-time-soon https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-...
cubefox 3y ago
No, they decided to actively disable nuclear power before coal power. Renewable energy has nothing to do with that.
- legulere 3y ago
  The Erneuerbare-Energien-Gesetz for building out renewables was decided for together with the nuclear phase—out as part of the Energiewende under Schröder. Of course they are strongly linked.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    That's not a justification.

How so? They are proposing renewables as an alternative, not fossil fuels. Renewables can be constructed faster and cheaper than nuclear and are the clear winner of the future.

Georgelemental 3y ago

Renewables (wind and solar) are intermittent. The storage technology to make them reliable without a backup source of power generation, does not yet exist at the scale that would be needed. For now, any viable plan for full decarbonization must include nuclear.

cubefox 3y ago
Yes, wind and solar are highly volatile; coal, nuclear and natural gas are not. When they decided to disable nuclear power, they wanted to replace it with natural gas from Russia (that's why they promoted Nord Stream 2), since it produces less CO2 than coal, but those gas deliveries were largely cut off because of the Ukraine war. So now only coal is left as a stable energy source.
- legulere 3y ago
  Before making claims, please look up numbers. In the same period nuclear was shut off in Germany coal-use also went down. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutsch...
  - cubefox 3y ago
    So what? Coal went down much less than it would have if nuclear wasn't disabled.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
rcxdude 3y ago
The storage technology to make nuclear cost-effective also does not yet exist, as demand is also not constant. Nuclear is a pretty bad complement to renewables on a grid: it loses terribly to renewables in a free market, relying on subsidies to get built and operate, and also does not actually make up for the intemittency of renewables. People keep saying that we need both but frankly it's one or the other.
legulere 3y ago
You have the same issue with nuclear as it cannot load-follow and technical issues can lead to massive shutdowns like in France last year. There exist several answers that have to be combined: Using biogas to load-follow. Currently biogas produces around 8% of electricity but mostly as base-load. Directing the use of electricity. This was already done to deal with nuclear‘s similar issue by offering cheaper prices in the night. With smart meters we can offer hourly based billing. Batteries for intra-day storage is already getting deployed as it’s already economical and we will see much more in the future. For seasonal low-points we will probably first continue to use gas but in a much smaller quantity if the other points also get deployed. At some point hydrogen will make sense.
- bob_theslob646 3y ago
  I'm sorry this is incredibly misleading. " Load following" ? Nuclear power is the most reliable and consistent energy source in the world. It's not even close! If you are going to spew garage, please cite it. This isn't reddit. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), the average capacity factor (which measures the actual electricity output of a power plant compared to its maximum potential output) for nuclear power plants around the world was 81% in 2019. This is higher than most other types of power plants, including coal-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 53% in 2019) and natural gas-fired power plants (which had an average capacity factor of 46% in 2019). The reason why there were "massive shutdowns" was because they didn't do maintenance during COVID as well as noticed abnormal corrosion. Regarding uptime, heres some data. Nuclear Reactor Up Time. User What is the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France? ChatGPT As of my knowledge cutoff date of September 2021, the average up time of a nuclear reactor in France was about 75%, according to data from the French electricity company EDF. This means that, on average, the reactors were operational and producing electricity for about 75% of the time. However, it's important to note that this figure can vary from year to year and from reactor to reactor, depending on factors such as maintenance schedules, unexpected shutdowns, and other issues User Can you cite your sources for uptime of nuclear power in France? chatGPT Sure, here are some sources for the uptime of nuclear power in France: According to the French electricity company EDF, the average availability rate for its nuclear fleet in 2020 was 75.9%. Source: https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclear-power-plants/the-operational-performance-of-the-nuclear-fleet https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/edf-in-france/the-nuclea... The World Nuclear Association also reports an average capacity factor (uptime) for nuclear power plants in France of 73.3% in 2019. Source: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr... The French government's Ministry of Ecological Transition provides a quarterly report on the performance of the country's electricity generation sources, including nuclear power. The latest report, covering Q4 2020, states that the availability rate for the nuclear fleet during that period was 71.2%. Source: https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance_Energetique_electrique_T4_2020.pdf https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/Performance... Sources for other statements. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-shutdown-of-nuclear-reactors-over-corrosion-amid-rising-energy-prices https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-... https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-reactors-will-not-work-as-normal-any-time-soon https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/10/13/frances-nuclear-...

cubefox 3y ago

No, they decided to actively disable nuclear power before coal power. Renewable energy has nothing to do with that.

legulere 3y ago
The Erneuerbare-Energien-Gesetz for building out renewables was decided for together with the nuclear phase—out as part of the Energiewende under Schröder. Of course they are strongly linked.
- cubefox 3y ago
  That's not a justification.