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I am not against Congress passing a debt ceiling hike, I am against Congress passing a "clean" hike that is not paired with the needed cuts in spending. The nor

I am not against Congress passing a debt ceiling hike, I am against Congress passing a "clean" hike that is not paired with the needed cuts in spending. The normal budgeting process clearly hasn't been working, if debt ceiling negotiations are the only way to force a fix then so be it.

GalenErso 4y ago
But it won't work. The administration won't trade spending cuts for a clean hike. It's like a hostage taker whose demands aren't met. You're left with two options: surrender, or shoot the hostage. Neither gets you what you want, but one is more reasonable than the other.
- astrange 4y ago
  The adminstration doesn't write budgets, Congress does, even if the president hosts the meetings where they talk about it. (Although presidents do run on doing a lot of things they don't have the power to do.)
  - junofan 4y ago
    The President writes the budget. You can find the budgets here: https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023 https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023 Congress passes nonbinding budget resolutions on themselves and binding appropriations bills on the Treasury.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > President writes the budget The President proposed budgets. The House and the Congress have the power of the purse.
      - HDThoreaun 4y ago
        The president is part of the legislative branch because they have veto power. It's really not as simple as "the president writes the budget" or "congress writes the budget". The entire legislative branch writes it together.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > president is part of the legislative branch because they have veto power Veto is a check on the legislature by the President. It does not make the President part of the legislature anymore than it makes every district court judge. (The Vice President has a hybrid role.) Congress can pass a budget with zero executive input by overriding the veto. One can correctly say the President is part of the legislative process. But not the branch.
        HDThoreaun 4y ago
        You're getting into semantics and I disagree with your definition of legislative branch. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you are a part of the lawmaking process you're in the legislative branch as far as I'm concerned.
        AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Well, you know, your definition of the legislative branch is the non-standard one. It's like you looked at rain, and said "that's mud", and someone said, "that's not mud, it's rain, because mud has dirt in it", and you said, "there's some dirt in rain, too; I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree". No, it's not "agree to disagree"; they're right in their definition, and you're wrong.
        HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Tanks for the laugh, but the accepted definition of legislative branch is "branch of government that makes laws" and the president is very much in the part of the government that makes laws, considering the difficulty in passing them without their approval.
    - astrange 4y ago
      No, the executive writes and releases a budget for PR reasons which Congress then receives, tears up into little pieces, and writes their own. If the presidency and Senate are controlled by opposing parties the Senate wins. Remember when Trump's proposed budget just defunded Meals on Wheels? That didn't actually happen because it's not real.

GalenErso 4y ago

But it won't work. The administration won't trade spending cuts for a clean hike. It's like a hostage taker whose demands aren't met. You're left with two options: surrender, or shoot the hostage. Neither gets you what you want, but one is more reasonable than the other.

astrange 4y ago
The adminstration doesn't write budgets, Congress does, even if the president hosts the meetings where they talk about it. (Although presidents do run on doing a lot of things they don't have the power to do.)
- junofan 4y ago
  The President writes the budget. You can find the budgets here: https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023 https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/budget/2023 Congress passes nonbinding budget resolutions on themselves and binding appropriations bills on the Treasury.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > President writes the budget The President proposed budgets. The House and the Congress have the power of the purse.
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      The president is part of the legislative branch because they have veto power. It's really not as simple as "the president writes the budget" or "congress writes the budget". The entire legislative branch writes it together.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > president is part of the legislative branch because they have veto power Veto is a check on the legislature by the President. It does not make the President part of the legislature anymore than it makes every district court judge. (The Vice President has a hybrid role.) Congress can pass a budget with zero executive input by overriding the veto. One can correctly say the President is part of the legislative process. But not the branch.
        HDThoreaun 4y ago
        You're getting into semantics and I disagree with your definition of legislative branch. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you are a part of the lawmaking process you're in the legislative branch as far as I'm concerned.
        AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Well, you know, your definition of the legislative branch is the non-standard one. It's like you looked at rain, and said "that's mud", and someone said, "that's not mud, it's rain, because mud has dirt in it", and you said, "there's some dirt in rain, too; I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree". No, it's not "agree to disagree"; they're right in their definition, and you're wrong.
        HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Tanks for the laugh, but the accepted definition of legislative branch is "branch of government that makes laws" and the president is very much in the part of the government that makes laws, considering the difficulty in passing them without their approval.
  - astrange 4y ago
    No, the executive writes and releases a budget for PR reasons which Congress then receives, tears up into little pieces, and writes their own. If the presidency and Senate are controlled by opposing parties the Senate wins. Remember when Trump's proposed budget just defunded Meals on Wheels? That didn't actually happen because it's not real.