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iPhones receive 5 years of support from when the device was _last sold by Apple_. Functionally, that means that buying a new iPhone when it's released will mean

iPhones receive 5 years of support from when the device was _last sold by Apple_. Functionally, that means that buying a new iPhone when it's released will mean that it receives 7 years of OS updates, including security fixes to the baseband and other hardware. I was using an iPhone 8 until last year, and it was functionally fine until I replaced it. This is one area where Apple is unambiguously leading the pack on mainstream manufacturers. The iPhone 14 is winning accolades for its (relative) ease of repair-ability, as well. It is not inconceivable that if you buy an iPhone 14 today, it will receive software and hardware support until 2029 - or even 2030 if you're lucky.

throwaway81523 3y ago
But people upgrade their iphones instead of replacing the glued in battery. Make the battery user replaceable with no tools or at most a small screwdriver, dammit.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Nobody wants a phone where the battery flies across the street if you drop it. Most normal people are satisfied with the fact that Apple will replace any iPhone battery with a new one for $49 while you wait.
  - throwaway81523 3y ago
    https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement doesn't work for me (doesn't show the estimate) but I thought it was $100+ and took a while. I did a DIY replacement for a 1st gen SE once and it was an unbelievable amount of work, plus many tiny little breakable parts had to be removed, the phone had to be heated to soften the glue, etc. Batteries don't fly across the street if you drop a phone: that is a dumb rationalization. Same with flashlights and other portable devices with batteries. If you insist, have the battery cover held down by a screw. There, no flying off.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    Blackberry and Nokia phones with replaceable batteries allowed hot-swap of a fully charged battery. Zero mobile downtime for charging, without requiring gigantic batteries for an excuse of gigantic screens. They were built like tanks and would not fall apart, battery or elsewhere, when dropped.
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      That is completely false. Dropping your blackberry and watching the battery cover skitter across the street and fall down a sewer grate was a common experience in the blackberry era.
      - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
        Whereas these days you'll probably watch as the entire phone shatters, both the screen and the pseudoglass back cover.
        walterbell 3y ago
        Varying battery requirements could be addressed by a case that provides power to a battery-less phone. There's also MagSafe battery packs, which would disconnect in case of a fall.
      - walterbell 3y ago
        > watching the battery cover skitter across the street The battery, or the battery cover? Do you recall which model?
- osigurdson 3y ago
  I replaced the battery on my kids iPhone XR. Wow, the screws are literally the size of a spec of dust. To the naked eye, the smallest screwdriver is a poker.
- tomjen3 3y ago
  And give up water resistance?
  - walterbell 3y ago
    What is gained by water resistance for the loss in repairability and privacy, which now requires a faraday bag in the absence of true power-off? Is this trade-off the same for every user? Offer one model with a replaceable battery and let the market decide.
    - tomjen3 3y ago
      There are lots of niche androids. The fair phone does have a replaceable battery. As the context of this debate is ewaste, giving up water resistance can reasonably be assumed to increase ewaste.
      - walterbell 3y ago
        > giving up water resistance can reasonably be assumed to increase ewaste Sacrificing repairability on 100% of phones causes more waste than the tiny percentage of phones that cannot be repaired after water damage? Current phones are water-resistant in varying degrees by IP rating, they are not waterproof. What's the number one remedial action that people took when their Nokia or Blackberry fell into water? Remove the battery to avoid an electrical short. This mitigation is not possible on an iPhone or Pixel.
  - thefz 3y ago
    How may times do you use your phone under the rain? A shower? Do you expect it to work in a pool or in the sea?
    - tomjen3 3y ago
      I use my phone, and it needs to work regardless of rain or not. It would also be nice if it worked even if I slip it into water by accident.
  - 3y ago
ryandrake 3y ago
(re-parenting my comment) Quite frankly, seven years is pathetic, and no company should be praised for that tiny support period. I have a seven year old phone, and the one and only thing that will cause me to get a new one is the OS vendor ending updates, effectively forcing me to dispose of a perfectly working phone. The hardware lasts far, far longer than the software, which is totally asinine and backwards. The glorious free market is failing to solve this problem. No serious phone OS vendor provides long term security updates for their devices. As a user, I demand at the very least basic, no-frills security-only support for as long as the hardware functions. This doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable.
- tomjen3 3y ago
  It’s not the markets fault if it doesn’t sell what you think it ought to sell. Edit: rephrased to not be unnecessarily offensive.
thefz 3y ago
There is no reason preventing any manufacturer to support older devices with security upgrades for a time way longer than this. And remember that Apple was the one throttling iphones with a bad battery. What would be the first reaction of 90% of the users, replace the battery or replace the phone because it's now slow? Don't fall for Apple's greenwashing, they are like or even worse than everybody else. See the "no charger included" campaign.
- gruez 3y ago
  > There is no reason preventing any manufacturer to support older devices with security upgrades for a time way longer than this. software maintenance costs money. >And remember that Apple was the one throttling iphones with a bad battery. They weren't throttling as part of some conspiracy to sell more phones. They were doing that so phones with weak batteries won't randomly power off because the battery couldn't deliver enough current.
  - thefz 3y ago
    Apple and Google sure lack money and personnel and talent. Poor souls. Let's just dream for a minute that not supporting older devices is not an executive decision because new devices mean selling more devices means stock price goes up.
    - parker_mountain 3y ago
      At the end of the day, these are companies with shareholders and boards that they're accountable to. It's not as cut and dry as "they could just do the right thing". To suggest otherwise is either foolish or intellectually dishonest. This is symptomatic of a larger problem, which I don't feel like getting into - but I do think that we need legislation around this to force these companies into doing the right thing.
- parker_mountain 3y ago
  > There is no reason preventing any manufacturer to support older devices with security upgrades for a time way longer than this. Well, it's complicated. The baseband is the biggest obstacle, because it's generally not made by the manufacturer and has a lot of arcane requirements that prevent them from having a great negotiation position, but yes, things could be better. Smaller manufacturers have a serious challenge with this, especially since they can't negotiate as well as Apple, and these kinds of things slaughter their margins. This is partially why Apple is the best at this and also partially why I think we need legislation in this area. >And remember that Apple was the one throttling iphones with a bad battery. What would be the first reaction of 90% of the users, replace the battery or replace the phone because it's now slow? They were doing that to extend the lifespan of the device, and communicated it poorly. Now, iOS informs you that you need to have your battery replaced, and Apple does it for a relatively reasonable cost. >Don't fall for Apple's greenwashing, they are like or even worse than everybody else. See the "no charger included" campaign. Apple is doing more than anyone else. They _should_ be doing better, but they certainly _could_ be doing worse. I would love legislation that suggested that all new phones sold in the US must have 5+ years of security updates /from when the model of device is last sold/. It would raise the price of phones, but there are already subsidy programs in place that could be (slightly) expanded to fill that. Actually, I'd prefer 10 years of security updates ;) but the bar is already tragically low.

throwaway81523 3y ago

But people upgrade their iphones instead of replacing the glued in battery. Make the battery user replaceable with no tools or at most a small screwdriver, dammit.

jeffbee 3y ago
Nobody wants a phone where the battery flies across the street if you drop it. Most normal people are satisfied with the fact that Apple will replace any iPhone battery with a new one for $49 while you wait.
- throwaway81523 3y ago
  https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement doesn't work for me (doesn't show the estimate) but I thought it was $100+ and took a while. I did a DIY replacement for a 1st gen SE once and it was an unbelievable amount of work, plus many tiny little breakable parts had to be removed, the phone had to be heated to soften the glue, etc. Batteries don't fly across the street if you drop a phone: that is a dumb rationalization. Same with flashlights and other portable devices with batteries. If you insist, have the battery cover held down by a screw. There, no flying off.
- walterbell 3y ago
  Blackberry and Nokia phones with replaceable batteries allowed hot-swap of a fully charged battery. Zero mobile downtime for charging, without requiring gigantic batteries for an excuse of gigantic screens. They were built like tanks and would not fall apart, battery or elsewhere, when dropped.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    That is completely false. Dropping your blackberry and watching the battery cover skitter across the street and fall down a sewer grate was a common experience in the blackberry era.
    - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
      Whereas these days you'll probably watch as the entire phone shatters, both the screen and the pseudoglass back cover.
      - walterbell 3y ago
        Varying battery requirements could be addressed by a case that provides power to a battery-less phone. There's also MagSafe battery packs, which would disconnect in case of a fall.
    - walterbell 3y ago
      > watching the battery cover skitter across the street The battery, or the battery cover? Do you recall which model?
osigurdson 3y ago
I replaced the battery on my kids iPhone XR. Wow, the screws are literally the size of a spec of dust. To the naked eye, the smallest screwdriver is a poker.
tomjen3 3y ago
And give up water resistance?
- walterbell 3y ago
  What is gained by water resistance for the loss in repairability and privacy, which now requires a faraday bag in the absence of true power-off? Is this trade-off the same for every user? Offer one model with a replaceable battery and let the market decide.
  - tomjen3 3y ago
    There are lots of niche androids. The fair phone does have a replaceable battery. As the context of this debate is ewaste, giving up water resistance can reasonably be assumed to increase ewaste.
    - walterbell 3y ago
      > giving up water resistance can reasonably be assumed to increase ewaste Sacrificing repairability on 100% of phones causes more waste than the tiny percentage of phones that cannot be repaired after water damage? Current phones are water-resistant in varying degrees by IP rating, they are not waterproof. What's the number one remedial action that people took when their Nokia or Blackberry fell into water? Remove the battery to avoid an electrical short. This mitigation is not possible on an iPhone or Pixel.
- thefz 3y ago
  How may times do you use your phone under the rain? A shower? Do you expect it to work in a pool or in the sea?
  - tomjen3 3y ago
    I use my phone, and it needs to work regardless of rain or not. It would also be nice if it worked even if I slip it into water by accident.
- 3y ago

ryandrake 3y ago

(re-parenting my comment) Quite frankly, seven years is pathetic, and no company should be praised for that tiny support period. I have a seven year old phone, and the one and only thing that will cause me to get a new one is the OS vendor ending updates, effectively forcing me to dispose of a perfectly working phone. The hardware lasts far, far longer than the software, which is totally asinine and backwards. The glorious free market is failing to solve this problem. No serious phone OS vendor provides long term security updates for their devices. As a user, I demand at the very least basic, no-frills security-only support for as long as the hardware functions. This doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable.

tomjen3 3y ago
It’s not the markets fault if it doesn’t sell what you think it ought to sell. Edit: rephrased to not be unnecessarily offensive.

thefz 3y ago

There is no reason preventing any manufacturer to support older devices with security upgrades for a time way longer than this. And remember that Apple was the one throttling iphones with a bad battery. What would be the first reaction of 90% of the users, replace the battery or replace the phone because it's now slow? Don't fall for Apple's greenwashing, they are like or even worse than everybody else. See the "no charger included" campaign.

gruez 3y ago
> There is no reason preventing any manufacturer to support older devices with security upgrades for a time way longer than this. software maintenance costs money. >And remember that Apple was the one throttling iphones with a bad battery. They weren't throttling as part of some conspiracy to sell more phones. They were doing that so phones with weak batteries won't randomly power off because the battery couldn't deliver enough current.
- thefz 3y ago
  Apple and Google sure lack money and personnel and talent. Poor souls. Let's just dream for a minute that not supporting older devices is not an executive decision because new devices mean selling more devices means stock price goes up.
  - parker_mountain 3y ago
    At the end of the day, these are companies with shareholders and boards that they're accountable to. It's not as cut and dry as "they could just do the right thing". To suggest otherwise is either foolish or intellectually dishonest. This is symptomatic of a larger problem, which I don't feel like getting into - but I do think that we need legislation around this to force these companies into doing the right thing.
parker_mountain 3y ago
> There is no reason preventing any manufacturer to support older devices with security upgrades for a time way longer than this. Well, it's complicated. The baseband is the biggest obstacle, because it's generally not made by the manufacturer and has a lot of arcane requirements that prevent them from having a great negotiation position, but yes, things could be better. Smaller manufacturers have a serious challenge with this, especially since they can't negotiate as well as Apple, and these kinds of things slaughter their margins. This is partially why Apple is the best at this and also partially why I think we need legislation in this area. >And remember that Apple was the one throttling iphones with a bad battery. What would be the first reaction of 90% of the users, replace the battery or replace the phone because it's now slow? They were doing that to extend the lifespan of the device, and communicated it poorly. Now, iOS informs you that you need to have your battery replaced, and Apple does it for a relatively reasonable cost. >Don't fall for Apple's greenwashing, they are like or even worse than everybody else. See the "no charger included" campaign. Apple is doing more than anyone else. They _should_ be doing better, but they certainly _could_ be doing worse. I would love legislation that suggested that all new phones sold in the US must have 5+ years of security updates /from when the model of device is last sold/. It would raise the price of phones, but there are already subsidy programs in place that could be (slightly) expanded to fill that. Actually, I'd prefer 10 years of security updates ;) but the bar is already tragically low.