5 ms·

So I work in the energy sector, and you are correct. The method we use for pricing power at a grid level is "local marginal pricing" - this is a price that is

So I work in the energy sector, and you are correct. The method we use for pricing power at a grid level is "local marginal pricing" - this is a price that is based on the location, the demand for power, and the ability for us to get the power across constraints (that is across a power gradient). It is often uneconomical to transmit power great distances, and loss factors are not insignificant. Not sure about Bhutan's grid, or who they can interchange to, but there are frequently wind farms in TX that have to take a loss to generate power simply because they are forced to generate power, and there is no demand for power in the region, and the buses (power lines) are congested. Also stranded hydropower is common the world over - it's easy to generate that power but difficult to build grid and interconnects to transmit that power - the line losses would be too high. For other types of generators - typically nuclear, often times ramp times for them are in the months, so turning up and turning down power is often difficult which is why an application that is passive, droppable, and can withstand latency is ideal to consume such power.

arcticbull 3y ago
> ... so turning up and turning down power is often difficult which is why an application that is passive, droppable, and can withstand latency is ideal to consume such power. Sure, so investing in smart load management is an optimal solution. With EVs and chargers coming online that's a huge load you can send a signal to in order to adjust demand. A country like Bhutan is very well suited to this kind of approach. Or change the energy mix so you have a balance of baseload and variable load generation. Or do something with it that isn't guessing random numbers on machines 99.7% of which will never successfully guess a single block and go from factory to space heater to landfill. Can't remember which miner, but one of the majors, made more money in credits for pausing their waste than they did from the bitcoins that came out the other end last year. It's just extorting the public. > Not sure about Bhutan's grid, or who they can interchange to, but there are frequently wind farms in TX that have to take a loss to generate power simply because they are forced to generate power, and there is no demand for power in the region, and the buses (power lines) are congested. So invest in building more power lines. The myth of stranded energy is toxic. Wasting it on bitcoin mining is an incentive not to connect it to the grid the way it should be connected. Either don't build it, or build it and connect it. The worst case outcome is to build and then waste it. Transmission losses are only 2-3% per 1000km.
- junofan 3y ago
  You’re suggesting Bhutan alter their national energy mix rather than run a Bitcoin mining operation? Bhutan has 0.15 vehicles per capita, among the lowest in the world. 47% of their popular has no education. You’re saying Bhutan should build a smart grid for EVs rather than run a Bitcoin mining operation? I think that’s kinda ridiculous.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Not really, I'm suggesting they sell more power to India which is what they do already. They can do that by lowering the price per kWh. > You’re saying Bhutan should build a smart grid for EVs rather than run a Bitcoin mining operation? I think that’s kinda ridiculous. Not just EVs, there's plenty of things you can make demand-responsive. Do something - anything - with it. Electrolyze water for hydrogen. Electric smelters. Power for a data center! The world is your oyster. What's ridiculous is wasting the power on lotto tickets and e-waste and furthering the single least efficient technology humanity has ever conceived of.
  - lordlimecat 3y ago
    Bitcoin mining generates literally no value for 99.99% of the population, so anything that improves the infrastructure is going to be more valuable than that.
    - MadcapJake 3y ago
      The maintenance cost of an EV network would far outweigh the cost to maintain a mining op.
- datadata 3y ago
  > Or do something with it that isn't guessing random numbers on machines 99.7% of which will never successfully guess a single block and go from factory to space heater to landfill. By this logic we should remove airbags from cars also-- the vast majority of airbags just cost money to manufacture and don't ever expand or save a life, ending up in landfills unused.
vxNsr 3y ago
Not to detract from anything you said but I read that Texas specifically is unique in that they don’t want to connect to the national grid to avoid being regulated by the federal government. It creates other problems like we saw in 2021 as well

arcticbull 3y ago

> ... so turning up and turning down power is often difficult which is why an application that is passive, droppable, and can withstand latency is ideal to consume such power. Sure, so investing in smart load management is an optimal solution. With EVs and chargers coming online that's a huge load you can send a signal to in order to adjust demand. A country like Bhutan is very well suited to this kind of approach. Or change the energy mix so you have a balance of baseload and variable load generation. Or do something with it that isn't guessing random numbers on machines 99.7% of which will never successfully guess a single block and go from factory to space heater to landfill. Can't remember which miner, but one of the majors, made more money in credits for pausing their waste than they did from the bitcoins that came out the other end last year. It's just extorting the public. > Not sure about Bhutan's grid, or who they can interchange to, but there are frequently wind farms in TX that have to take a loss to generate power simply because they are forced to generate power, and there is no demand for power in the region, and the buses (power lines) are congested. So invest in building more power lines. The myth of stranded energy is toxic. Wasting it on bitcoin mining is an incentive not to connect it to the grid the way it should be connected. Either don't build it, or build it and connect it. The worst case outcome is to build and then waste it. Transmission losses are only 2-3% per 1000km.

junofan 3y ago
You’re suggesting Bhutan alter their national energy mix rather than run a Bitcoin mining operation? Bhutan has 0.15 vehicles per capita, among the lowest in the world. 47% of their popular has no education. You’re saying Bhutan should build a smart grid for EVs rather than run a Bitcoin mining operation? I think that’s kinda ridiculous.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Not really, I'm suggesting they sell more power to India which is what they do already. They can do that by lowering the price per kWh. > You’re saying Bhutan should build a smart grid for EVs rather than run a Bitcoin mining operation? I think that’s kinda ridiculous. Not just EVs, there's plenty of things you can make demand-responsive. Do something - anything - with it. Electrolyze water for hydrogen. Electric smelters. Power for a data center! The world is your oyster. What's ridiculous is wasting the power on lotto tickets and e-waste and furthering the single least efficient technology humanity has ever conceived of.
- lordlimecat 3y ago
  Bitcoin mining generates literally no value for 99.99% of the population, so anything that improves the infrastructure is going to be more valuable than that.
  - MadcapJake 3y ago
    The maintenance cost of an EV network would far outweigh the cost to maintain a mining op.
datadata 3y ago
> Or do something with it that isn't guessing random numbers on machines 99.7% of which will never successfully guess a single block and go from factory to space heater to landfill. By this logic we should remove airbags from cars also-- the vast majority of airbags just cost money to manufacture and don't ever expand or save a life, ending up in landfills unused.

vxNsr 3y ago

Not to detract from anything you said but I read that Texas specifically is unique in that they don’t want to connect to the national grid to avoid being regulated by the federal government. It creates other problems like we saw in 2021 as well