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Google likes to mention that they are carbon neutral since 2007 on their homepage. They don't seem to consider Android phone and it's footprint. People have to

Google likes to mention that they are carbon neutral since 2007 on their homepage. They don't seem to consider Android phone and it's footprint. People have to keep buying phones because they can't support old phones.

hammyhavoc 3y ago
Pixel support is fine. Are you talking about Android updates in general on third-party devices? That's a chip-related problem. Vent at Qualcomm.
- AshamedCaptain 3y ago
  > That's a chip-related problem. The chips are fine, or at least they are as fine as they were when they were bought, so it is not a chip problem. It is a Google problem.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Note the word "related". It's doing a lot of heavy-lifting in this sentence. The drivers for the SoC are closed source. Qualcomm refuses to update the drivers, meaning more sales. The modern Pixel uses Google's Tensor, not Qualcomm's Snapdragon.
    - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
      If only there was one entity that literally controls who has access or not to the Google Store, and could enforce practices like actually respecting copyrights (like the GPL) or even using an upstream kernel for any device that ever wants to access the Google Store... This is all Google's fault. They are the ones who develop most of the software. They are the ones who decide what to deprecated and what not. They also set the rules about what is acceptable and what is not ('open' handset alliance my ass).
  - dmbche 3y ago
    Yeah I'm on a Pixel 2 still and it's snappy as ever, I would see no improvement at all by buying this year's flagship. I'm sorry to hear other androids aren't the same.
    - hammyhavoc 3y ago
      But the Pixel 2 got its final update in 2020 and doesn't get security updates anymore, right? I'll take security over performance if it's my daily-driver and I'm doing things that might actually make sense to protect (banking et al), but threat models vary of course.
      - dmbche 3y ago
        You're right - I forgot about that - I assume my device is already unsecure to the bone, but I doubt that's fine for most people
- ikekkdcjkfke 3y ago
  Phones worked perfectly fine years ago. As soon as you update, suddenly you're RAM is innsufficient and paging slows down the phone. Now you need to buy the new model
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Name those phones. Contact your device manufacturer and complain if they aren't unrealistically old.
- lukeschlather 3y ago
  Anything with a locked bootloader should have lifetime support. Even with an unlocked bootloader 3 years of software support is not remotely fine. Most phones with decent care can last 6 years fine. Realistically even with unlocked bootloaders a lack of perpetual android updates is going to result in waste.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Yup. So complain to Qualcomm and apply pressure to your device manufacturer on their forum, social media, your blog, the media, a YouTube video. Right To Repair didn't gain traction by nerds preaching to the choir. They're a corp. Threaten to hit them where it hurts: bottomline, and negative press causing damage to the bottomline.
- mindslight 3y ago
  > Pixel support is fine Uh, what? I just bought a new Pixel 7 (after my perfectly good S7 was deliberately obsoleted by carriers discontinuing some 4G cell service (and the FCC allowing this!)). The Pixel's official software updates are slated to end in less than 3 short years, and the security updates are slated to end in less than 5 short years, leading third party distributions Graphene/Calyx to project ending of their own support in 5 short years as well. This is most definitely not "fine" ! If the various drivers required to get the device running were actually upstreamed into the mainline kernel, and Google stopped churning Android major versions like it was fashion week, then my phone could happily function for 10+ years just like my laptop and desktop.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    3 years is a huge step up on where Android support was a few years ago, let alone 5 years. There are Android tablets and phones I've bought in the past that never got one update or any kind of security update, and were out of date before they were even released in terms of software. They couldn't even run the apps I'd bought them for as I'd naively assumed they'd be running the latest OS when they launched. Plenty of manufacturers also promise updates and don't deliver because they're at the mercy of Qualcomm providing driver updates. The last Nokia I had got a couple months of updates then nothing for over a year, yet was in the Android One program. Like I said: it's fine. If replacing the phone in 3 years or 5 years time is going to be a problem then perhaps you should have bought a cheaper phone and replaced more often, IMO. The cost of ownership per year assuming 3-5 years is the price of a piece of crap that gets updates for a few months to a year. By the time year 2 hits on most phones, the battery is mediocre versus what it used to be. Google has a trade-in program that gives pretty good credit towards the next device. It's a cellphone. It's not a desktop computer. They aren't built to last or assumed to last. Buy it, use it, trash or trade it in, get the next one. Sure, I wish that there was an ATX-like standard for cellphone chassis and parts, but there isn't, and the support is much better than it was. Cellphones are garbage versus what they used to be in build quality and durability, but they also do much more than they ever did. Maybe an iPhone would suit you better? Hell, I didn't even use a phone for quite a few years as I shared your sentiment, but I aged out of it and found other things to worry about, and a few hundred bucks every few years is whatever to have one less problem with something I use for a good chunk of every day. My modded ThinkPad T440p is still going strong. The missus's X201 is still going strong too. I use 30-50 year old tech elsewhere because it still works, I love the design, and/or it's easy to service. I get the sentiment.
bushbaba 3y ago
Google isn't carbon neutral. They are neutral-ish. They still use coal and natural gas based energy generation to power their DCs. They just buy an equivalent amount of energy in other locations as 'offsets'. If all coal and natural gas generation went offline today, Google would have an outage of their datacenters.
kelnos 3y ago
Pixel support is at 5 years now for security updates (only 3 years for major OS updates, unfortunately), which is still not as good as Apple in general, but is pretty good considering where they were just a few years ago. Google isn't responsible for the support agreements Samsung, Motorola, etc. make with their suppliers.

hammyhavoc 3y ago

Pixel support is fine. Are you talking about Android updates in general on third-party devices? That's a chip-related problem. Vent at Qualcomm.

AshamedCaptain 3y ago
> That's a chip-related problem. The chips are fine, or at least they are as fine as they were when they were bought, so it is not a chip problem. It is a Google problem.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Note the word "related". It's doing a lot of heavy-lifting in this sentence. The drivers for the SoC are closed source. Qualcomm refuses to update the drivers, meaning more sales. The modern Pixel uses Google's Tensor, not Qualcomm's Snapdragon.
  - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
    If only there was one entity that literally controls who has access or not to the Google Store, and could enforce practices like actually respecting copyrights (like the GPL) or even using an upstream kernel for any device that ever wants to access the Google Store... This is all Google's fault. They are the ones who develop most of the software. They are the ones who decide what to deprecated and what not. They also set the rules about what is acceptable and what is not ('open' handset alliance my ass).
- dmbche 3y ago
  Yeah I'm on a Pixel 2 still and it's snappy as ever, I would see no improvement at all by buying this year's flagship. I'm sorry to hear other androids aren't the same.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    But the Pixel 2 got its final update in 2020 and doesn't get security updates anymore, right? I'll take security over performance if it's my daily-driver and I'm doing things that might actually make sense to protect (banking et al), but threat models vary of course.
    - dmbche 3y ago
      You're right - I forgot about that - I assume my device is already unsecure to the bone, but I doubt that's fine for most people
ikekkdcjkfke 3y ago
Phones worked perfectly fine years ago. As soon as you update, suddenly you're RAM is innsufficient and paging slows down the phone. Now you need to buy the new model
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Name those phones. Contact your device manufacturer and complain if they aren't unrealistically old.
lukeschlather 3y ago
Anything with a locked bootloader should have lifetime support. Even with an unlocked bootloader 3 years of software support is not remotely fine. Most phones with decent care can last 6 years fine. Realistically even with unlocked bootloaders a lack of perpetual android updates is going to result in waste.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Yup. So complain to Qualcomm and apply pressure to your device manufacturer on their forum, social media, your blog, the media, a YouTube video. Right To Repair didn't gain traction by nerds preaching to the choir. They're a corp. Threaten to hit them where it hurts: bottomline, and negative press causing damage to the bottomline.
mindslight 3y ago
> Pixel support is fine Uh, what? I just bought a new Pixel 7 (after my perfectly good S7 was deliberately obsoleted by carriers discontinuing some 4G cell service (and the FCC allowing this!)). The Pixel's official software updates are slated to end in less than 3 short years, and the security updates are slated to end in less than 5 short years, leading third party distributions Graphene/Calyx to project ending of their own support in 5 short years as well. This is most definitely not "fine" ! If the various drivers required to get the device running were actually upstreamed into the mainline kernel, and Google stopped churning Android major versions like it was fashion week, then my phone could happily function for 10+ years just like my laptop and desktop.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  3 years is a huge step up on where Android support was a few years ago, let alone 5 years. There are Android tablets and phones I've bought in the past that never got one update or any kind of security update, and were out of date before they were even released in terms of software. They couldn't even run the apps I'd bought them for as I'd naively assumed they'd be running the latest OS when they launched. Plenty of manufacturers also promise updates and don't deliver because they're at the mercy of Qualcomm providing driver updates. The last Nokia I had got a couple months of updates then nothing for over a year, yet was in the Android One program. Like I said: it's fine. If replacing the phone in 3 years or 5 years time is going to be a problem then perhaps you should have bought a cheaper phone and replaced more often, IMO. The cost of ownership per year assuming 3-5 years is the price of a piece of crap that gets updates for a few months to a year. By the time year 2 hits on most phones, the battery is mediocre versus what it used to be. Google has a trade-in program that gives pretty good credit towards the next device. It's a cellphone. It's not a desktop computer. They aren't built to last or assumed to last. Buy it, use it, trash or trade it in, get the next one. Sure, I wish that there was an ATX-like standard for cellphone chassis and parts, but there isn't, and the support is much better than it was. Cellphones are garbage versus what they used to be in build quality and durability, but they also do much more than they ever did. Maybe an iPhone would suit you better? Hell, I didn't even use a phone for quite a few years as I shared your sentiment, but I aged out of it and found other things to worry about, and a few hundred bucks every few years is whatever to have one less problem with something I use for a good chunk of every day. My modded ThinkPad T440p is still going strong. The missus's X201 is still going strong too. I use 30-50 year old tech elsewhere because it still works, I love the design, and/or it's easy to service. I get the sentiment.

bushbaba 3y ago

Google isn't carbon neutral. They are neutral-ish. They still use coal and natural gas based energy generation to power their DCs. They just buy an equivalent amount of energy in other locations as 'offsets'. If all coal and natural gas generation went offline today, Google would have an outage of their datacenters.

kelnos 3y ago

Pixel support is at 5 years now for security updates (only 3 years for major OS updates, unfortunately), which is still not as good as Apple in general, but is pretty good considering where they were just a few years ago. Google isn't responsible for the support agreements Samsung, Motorola, etc. make with their suppliers.