3 ms·

The median resident isn’t buying a place in Shinjuku - see my edited part of the comment. Tokyo’s transit enables cheaper living than is available in the bay.

endisneigh 3y ago
The bay isn't remotely reasonable comparison. NYC is much cheaper than Tokyo, adjusted for living quarter size and median wage. I'm not talking about affordances you get by living in certain areas - simply the size of the place and the price, relative to localized income. Tokyo simply is not cheaper, period. It only seems cheaper because rich Americans keep using their income and comparing it to the adjusted USD:YEN price. The Yen is trash compared to the dollar, so it seems affordable to an American. But it's not America. I feel like many commenters have not been to Tokyo. Some of the apartments are literally the size of a single bedroom in an average New York City apartment.
- atdrummond 3y ago
  I was paid a local salary while living in Japan. The total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water in terms of affordability and I’ve lived multiple years in all three. CPI with rent in NYC is nearly 90% higher. Median household in New York is 120k; it’s 87k in Japan. Rent is over 200% higher than in Japan. Even adjusting for square footage and the earning differential, I assure you it is much easier to get an affordable place (and pay less per square foot accounting for income differentials) in Japan than in New York. Because of the Japanese transit system and the lack of household appreciation, there is a much broader range of rental prices and that range increases the further outside the city center you go.
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    I'm not talking about total cost of living, I'm talking about the rent. meals along with other things, in tokyo are substantially cheaper than in New York, agreed.
    - crooked-v 3y ago
      The post you're replying to directly mentioned rent specifically multiple times.
      - atdrummond 3y ago
        To be fair, I did edit and make some adjustments. Their critique was valid as of my initial post.
  - mitthrowaway2 3y ago
    I have lived in Tokyo and I agree with you. And other high-tier Japanese cities like Kyoto and Fukuoka are affordable on local salaries as well (both in terms of rent and in general). Wanted to mention though that your sentence "the total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water" risks being interpreted with two very different meanings.
    - atdrummond 3y ago
      Fixed - thank you. I didn’t even want to get into the other metros and complicate the discussion further but yes, they have extremely reasonable options as well.
- ryan_lane 3y ago
  I currently work for a US tech company here in Tokyo, but previously worked at a local tech company. I've lived in 3 separate places in Tokyo (and currently own an apartment), and everything I've lived in has been bigger and cheaper than my apartment in San Francisco. I currently live in Sangenjaya (central Tokyo, a couple stops from Shibuya) and my mortgage, insurance, HOA, and total expenses are cheaper than my rent alone in SF. My income is lower, but not in a way that I actually feel, because the overall cost of living is considerably lower in Tokyo. The conversion rate only really matters if you're going out of the country. There's been barely any inflation, so if anything, as the rate eventually goes back to normal, things will still be considerably cheaper here. Yes, a lot of people live in tiny apartments here, but the cost of those units can be really cheap. You can pay ~$400 a month for a tiny unit here, which you simply can't get in NYC.
- presentation 3y ago
  Also keep in mind, in Japan people are much tidier and space efficient in their lifestyle than Americans are. What seems like an unlivable amount of space to an American is plenty comfortable to a Japanese person (and to those who move there and adapt to the lifestyle), especially considering that people don’t tend to spend all day at home unless you’re a shut-in, nor do they typically host gatherings at home (you meet with people outside). It’s a different lifestyle and people adapt to it just fine, I personally prefer it.

endisneigh 3y ago

The bay isn't remotely reasonable comparison. NYC is much cheaper than Tokyo, adjusted for living quarter size and median wage. I'm not talking about affordances you get by living in certain areas - simply the size of the place and the price, relative to localized income. Tokyo simply is not cheaper, period. It only seems cheaper because rich Americans keep using their income and comparing it to the adjusted USD:YEN price. The Yen is trash compared to the dollar, so it seems affordable to an American. But it's not America. I feel like many commenters have not been to Tokyo. Some of the apartments are literally the size of a single bedroom in an average New York City apartment.

atdrummond 3y ago
I was paid a local salary while living in Japan. The total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water in terms of affordability and I’ve lived multiple years in all three. CPI with rent in NYC is nearly 90% higher. Median household in New York is 120k; it’s 87k in Japan. Rent is over 200% higher than in Japan. Even adjusting for square footage and the earning differential, I assure you it is much easier to get an affordable place (and pay less per square foot accounting for income differentials) in Japan than in New York. Because of the Japanese transit system and the lack of household appreciation, there is a much broader range of rental prices and that range increases the further outside the city center you go.
- endisneigh 3y ago
  I'm not talking about total cost of living, I'm talking about the rent. meals along with other things, in tokyo are substantially cheaper than in New York, agreed.
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    The post you're replying to directly mentioned rent specifically multiple times.
    - atdrummond 3y ago
      To be fair, I did edit and make some adjustments. Their critique was valid as of my initial post.
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago
  I have lived in Tokyo and I agree with you. And other high-tier Japanese cities like Kyoto and Fukuoka are affordable on local salaries as well (both in terms of rent and in general). Wanted to mention though that your sentence "the total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water" risks being interpreted with two very different meanings.
  - atdrummond 3y ago
    Fixed - thank you. I didn’t even want to get into the other metros and complicate the discussion further but yes, they have extremely reasonable options as well.
ryan_lane 3y ago
I currently work for a US tech company here in Tokyo, but previously worked at a local tech company. I've lived in 3 separate places in Tokyo (and currently own an apartment), and everything I've lived in has been bigger and cheaper than my apartment in San Francisco. I currently live in Sangenjaya (central Tokyo, a couple stops from Shibuya) and my mortgage, insurance, HOA, and total expenses are cheaper than my rent alone in SF. My income is lower, but not in a way that I actually feel, because the overall cost of living is considerably lower in Tokyo. The conversion rate only really matters if you're going out of the country. There's been barely any inflation, so if anything, as the rate eventually goes back to normal, things will still be considerably cheaper here. Yes, a lot of people live in tiny apartments here, but the cost of those units can be really cheap. You can pay ~$400 a month for a tiny unit here, which you simply can't get in NYC.
presentation 3y ago
Also keep in mind, in Japan people are much tidier and space efficient in their lifestyle than Americans are. What seems like an unlivable amount of space to an American is plenty comfortable to a Japanese person (and to those who move there and adapt to the lifestyle), especially considering that people don’t tend to spend all day at home unless you’re a shut-in, nor do they typically host gatherings at home (you meet with people outside). It’s a different lifestyle and people adapt to it just fine, I personally prefer it.