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Really? I’ve lived in the Bay Area and Tokyo. Right now I can find a 535 sq ft bedroom in Tokyo for $1170 (https://realestate.co.jp/en/rent/view/929199 https://

Really? I’ve lived in the Bay Area and Tokyo. Right now I can find a 535 sq ft bedroom in Tokyo for $1170 (https://realestate.co.jp/en/rent/view/929199 https://realestate.co.jp/en/rent/view/929199). There are plenty of units like this - and even more (slightly bigger, nicer amenities, etc) to three times more. And this isn’t even a “cheap” part of the city. Even at that higher end of the Tokyo price range, there’s nothing like that for solo renters in SF or Oakland. You’ll have to go a one hour drive out of either city. Even then, there’s a good chance you’d end up in a room with shared amenities rather than a full apartment. And let’s not forget that Tokyo actually has real transit. My first rental there was a luxury 4 bedroom home about 45 minutes from my office by train - I paid $1200 a month. It’d be even less today.

endisneigh 3y ago
you need to adjust for local income. the apartment you posted would be massively unaffordable for a local tokyo resident with the median wage.
- atdrummond 3y ago
  The median resident isn’t buying a place in Shinjuku - see my edited part of the comment. Tokyo’s transit enables cheaper living than is available in the bay.
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    The bay isn't remotely reasonable comparison. NYC is much cheaper than Tokyo, adjusted for living quarter size and median wage. I'm not talking about affordances you get by living in certain areas - simply the size of the place and the price, relative to localized income. Tokyo simply is not cheaper, period. It only seems cheaper because rich Americans keep using their income and comparing it to the adjusted USD:YEN price. The Yen is trash compared to the dollar, so it seems affordable to an American. But it's not America. I feel like many commenters have not been to Tokyo. Some of the apartments are literally the size of a single bedroom in an average New York City apartment.
    - atdrummond 3y ago
      I was paid a local salary while living in Japan. The total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water in terms of affordability and I’ve lived multiple years in all three. CPI with rent in NYC is nearly 90% higher. Median household in New York is 120k; it’s 87k in Japan. Rent is over 200% higher than in Japan. Even adjusting for square footage and the earning differential, I assure you it is much easier to get an affordable place (and pay less per square foot accounting for income differentials) in Japan than in New York. Because of the Japanese transit system and the lack of household appreciation, there is a much broader range of rental prices and that range increases the further outside the city center you go.
      - endisneigh 3y ago
        I'm not talking about total cost of living, I'm talking about the rent. meals along with other things, in tokyo are substantially cheaper than in New York, agreed.
        crooked-v 3y ago
        The post you're replying to directly mentioned rent specifically multiple times.
        atdrummond 3y ago
        To be fair, I did edit and make some adjustments. Their critique was valid as of my initial post.
      - mitthrowaway2 3y ago
        I have lived in Tokyo and I agree with you. And other high-tier Japanese cities like Kyoto and Fukuoka are affordable on local salaries as well (both in terms of rent and in general). Wanted to mention though that your sentence "the total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water" risks being interpreted with two very different meanings.
robocat 3y ago
The article mentions Tokyo in a footnote: 1 I’m limiting this to America because it’s approximately a self-contained housing market; I don’t think there are enough immigrants to really affect things. Thinking at a country level does make a difference - for example, I worry someone will bring up Tokyo as a counterexample. But I think Tokyo managed to build its way to low housing prices in the context of the rest of Japan also having good housing policy. Even if that isn’t true, Tokyo on its own is a quarter of the Japanese market, so it might be able to exhaust the entire pool of Japanese house-seekers by itself!
presentation 3y ago
Transport is key - it dramatically increases the amount of land available to build on within commute distance. People like to think NYC has a good amount of transit, but when you realize the Tokyo area has 120+ rail lines, most of which have a higher degree of service than even the most central ones in Manhattan, you realize that the USA can be doing so much more.
- atdrummond 3y ago
  Bingo

endisneigh 3y ago

you need to adjust for local income. the apartment you posted would be massively unaffordable for a local tokyo resident with the median wage.

atdrummond 3y ago
The median resident isn’t buying a place in Shinjuku - see my edited part of the comment. Tokyo’s transit enables cheaper living than is available in the bay.
- endisneigh 3y ago
  The bay isn't remotely reasonable comparison. NYC is much cheaper than Tokyo, adjusted for living quarter size and median wage. I'm not talking about affordances you get by living in certain areas - simply the size of the place and the price, relative to localized income. Tokyo simply is not cheaper, period. It only seems cheaper because rich Americans keep using their income and comparing it to the adjusted USD:YEN price. The Yen is trash compared to the dollar, so it seems affordable to an American. But it's not America. I feel like many commenters have not been to Tokyo. Some of the apartments are literally the size of a single bedroom in an average New York City apartment.
  - atdrummond 3y ago
    I was paid a local salary while living in Japan. The total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water in terms of affordability and I’ve lived multiple years in all three. CPI with rent in NYC is nearly 90% higher. Median household in New York is 120k; it’s 87k in Japan. Rent is over 200% higher than in Japan. Even adjusting for square footage and the earning differential, I assure you it is much easier to get an affordable place (and pay less per square foot accounting for income differentials) in Japan than in New York. Because of the Japanese transit system and the lack of household appreciation, there is a much broader range of rental prices and that range increases the further outside the city center you go.
    - endisneigh 3y ago
      I'm not talking about total cost of living, I'm talking about the rent. meals along with other things, in tokyo are substantially cheaper than in New York, agreed.
      - crooked-v 3y ago
        The post you're replying to directly mentioned rent specifically multiple times.
        atdrummond 3y ago
        To be fair, I did edit and make some adjustments. Their critique was valid as of my initial post.
    - mitthrowaway2 3y ago
      I have lived in Tokyo and I agree with you. And other high-tier Japanese cities like Kyoto and Fukuoka are affordable on local salaries as well (both in terms of rent and in general). Wanted to mention though that your sentence "the total cost of living in Tokyo blows NYC and the Bay out of the water" risks being interpreted with two very different meanings.

robocat 3y ago

The article mentions Tokyo in a footnote: 1 I’m limiting this to America because it’s approximately a self-contained housing market; I don’t think there are enough immigrants to really affect things. Thinking at a country level does make a difference - for example, I worry someone will bring up Tokyo as a counterexample. But I think Tokyo managed to build its way to low housing prices in the context of the rest of Japan also having good housing policy. Even if that isn’t true, Tokyo on its own is a quarter of the Japanese market, so it might be able to exhaust the entire pool of Japanese house-seekers by itself!

presentation 3y ago

Transport is key - it dramatically increases the amount of land available to build on within commute distance. People like to think NYC has a good amount of transit, but when you realize the Tokyo area has 120+ rail lines, most of which have a higher degree of service than even the most central ones in Manhattan, you realize that the USA can be doing so much more.

atdrummond 3y ago
Bingo