3 ms·

> The woodpecker’s head strikes with at least 1,000 times the force of gravity (1,000 g), yet the bird suffers no apparent harm. By contrast, any human who exp

> The woodpecker’s head strikes with at least 1,000 times the force of gravity (1,000 g), yet the bird suffers no apparent harm. By contrast, any human who experienced a 100 g impact would surely die. Nope, not true. 100 g accelerations of the human head (not just the helmet) happen routinely in football. > VT researchers gather data with the Head Impact Telemetry System, which employs sensors and wireless transmitters in helmets. "We see 100-g impacts all the time," says Stefan Duma, director of the university's Center for Injury Biomechanics, "and several over 150 g's." https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a2954/4212171/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a2954/4212... In generally, using g's (acceleration) to measure impact severity is fraught because the damage is also highly dependent on the during of the impact. Just a few g's is enough to kill if sustained for long enough. Fighter pilots can handle 8-9 gees for a second or two, but will pass out after longer. But a human can handle way more from brief (sub second) impacts.

gnarbarian 3y ago
the impulse (force/time) is probably a better measure
- yarg 3y ago
  Impulse isn't force over (divided by) time, it's the integral of force over (with respect to) time.
- just_boost_it 3y ago
  Its really a sound wave pulsing through the grey mush of each brain, so some measure of stress (force/area) or strain (differential displacement/area) might be the beast way to look at it. The damage might be done in shear where the center of the brain moves while the outside is stuck to the skull, but it would be really hard to measure that. Maybe woodpecker brains are more free to wobble around inside their skulls so shear stresses and strains are lower than they are in people?
- jessriedel 3y ago
  Based on eyeballing the charts here, it looks like (accel)^4(time) better approximates the boundary of human endurance: doubling the number of gees cuts the amount of endurable time by more like a factor of 16 than 2. https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/6154/maximum-survivable-long-term-g-forces https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/6154/maximum-survi...
m463 3y ago
Just watched the movie "Concussion" with Will Smith. Sort of amazing the sort of punishment football players heads withstand... but they DO die much earlier in life with lots of complications. "The woodpecker's tongue extends through the back of the mouth out of the nostril, encircling the entire cranium. It is the anatomical equivalent of a safety belt for its brain. Human beings? Not a single piece of our anatomy protects us from those types of collisions. A human being will get concussed at sixty G's." also: "The Cape gannet. A diving bird capable of generating speeds of up to 75 miles per hour, turning itself into a missile as it collides with the face of the sea. The red-head woodpecker can absorb a G-force of 1,000, pecking a tree 12,000 times per day, 85 million times over its lifetime. Bighorn sheep can generate..." "Bennet." "Okay, okay."
- anu7df 3y ago
  I thought concussion was from the brain sloshing around inside the skull. How does a tongue "set-belt" around the skull help with that?
- deafpolygon 3y ago
  > The woodpecker's tongue extends through the back of the mouth out of the nostril, encircling the entire cranium. Don't think this protects the brain. This allows it to hold tension like a spring so it can hammer (think about those springed door stops you flicked as a kid and the sound it makes). https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/22940.jpg https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/22940.j...
lysp 3y ago
> Fighter pilots can handle 8-9 gees for a second or two, but will pass out after longer Except this guy who eats 9g for breakfast... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nbRYIBVDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nbRYIBVDQ

gnarbarian 3y ago

the impulse (force/time) is probably a better measure

yarg 3y ago
Impulse isn't force over (divided by) time, it's the integral of force over (with respect to) time.
just_boost_it 3y ago
Its really a sound wave pulsing through the grey mush of each brain, so some measure of stress (force/area) or strain (differential displacement/area) might be the beast way to look at it. The damage might be done in shear where the center of the brain moves while the outside is stuck to the skull, but it would be really hard to measure that. Maybe woodpecker brains are more free to wobble around inside their skulls so shear stresses and strains are lower than they are in people?
jessriedel 3y ago
Based on eyeballing the charts here, it looks like (accel)^4(time) better approximates the boundary of human endurance: doubling the number of gees cuts the amount of endurable time by more like a factor of 16 than 2. https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/6154/maximum-survivable-long-term-g-forces https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/6154/maximum-survi...

m463 3y ago

Just watched the movie "Concussion" with Will Smith. Sort of amazing the sort of punishment football players heads withstand... but they DO die much earlier in life with lots of complications. "The woodpecker's tongue extends through the back of the mouth out of the nostril, encircling the entire cranium. It is the anatomical equivalent of a safety belt for its brain. Human beings? Not a single piece of our anatomy protects us from those types of collisions. A human being will get concussed at sixty G's." also: "The Cape gannet. A diving bird capable of generating speeds of up to 75 miles per hour, turning itself into a missile as it collides with the face of the sea. The red-head woodpecker can absorb a G-force of 1,000, pecking a tree 12,000 times per day, 85 million times over its lifetime. Bighorn sheep can generate..." "Bennet." "Okay, okay."

anu7df 3y ago
I thought concussion was from the brain sloshing around inside the skull. How does a tongue "set-belt" around the skull help with that?
deafpolygon 3y ago
> The woodpecker's tongue extends through the back of the mouth out of the nostril, encircling the entire cranium. Don't think this protects the brain. This allows it to hold tension like a spring so it can hammer (think about those springed door stops you flicked as a kid and the sound it makes). https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/22940.jpg https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/22940.j...

lysp 3y ago

> Fighter pilots can handle 8-9 gees for a second or two, but will pass out after longer Except this guy who eats 9g for breakfast... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nbRYIBVDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nbRYIBVDQ