4 ms·

Sewage is easy, get a septic tank

culi 4y ago
Even easier than that... just don't treat it as "sewage". In Japan all the way up into the 20th century landlords often claimed a right to their residents "night soil". In pretty much everywhere except (parts of) Europe, human manure was seen as a very valuable resource. Start a compost pile and get the correct Carbon:Nitrogen ratio (~24:1). Using the Berkeley method it can reach heats of up to 200°F (93°C) within a week. You'd be surprised how quickly something like human feces can neutralized in conditions like these. The recommended wait time before direct handling is usually about 2 months but this is mostly because it's hard to be sure you've got the right ratios, temperatures, etc. Regardless, anyone trying an "offgrid" life would be wise to stop pouring effort into throwing away one of the most valuable resources humans produce
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- carapace 4y ago
  I've done experiments (with items from the catbox, not my own) with vermi-composting night soil. A healthy colony of E. foetidia with vanish a turd in less than an hour or so.
  - culi 4y ago
    Hmm I'm not quite sure this would actually neutralize parasites however. In composting, the actions of the microbes themselves allow the pile to reach temperatures high enough to burn your hand. These temperatures can actually be sustained for quite a while too. Even the very microbes that cause temperatures to reach that high themselves die and the only lifeforms left are some specialist thermophilic species. Vermicompost setups never reach those temperatures so I don't see how it could possibly be safe to vermicompost human feces in them...
    - carapace 4y ago
      It's a good point. The "Humanure Handbook" guy hasn't developed a prion disease, so there's that... A quick search turned up this... > As for pathogens, while there has been considerable research demonstrating the effectiveness of vermicomposting as a means of destroying pathogens, I still recommend taking a cautious approach with any material removed from the system. You may want to further process it via hot composting before using it – and you may want to avoid using it as fertilizer for food crops (even with additional measures being taken). https://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/human-waste-vermicomposting/ https://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/human-wast...
      - culi 4y ago
        > The "Humanure Handbook" guy hasn't developed a prion disease As much as HN loves obsessing over prions they're still an extremely rare phenomenon and there's few real solutions to resolving them regardless of how you deal with organic matter. Your poop is also not the only way it spreads. Saliva, urine, blood, etc all spread it. Ultimately a prion is just a protein malformed in a very specific configuration. If anything, exposing organic matter to high heat might actually reduce the risk of prions spreading than collecting all sewage together and washing it many miles away in underground tunnels But yes, there are definitely other pathogens worth thinking about that can be spread from human organic products and I would really caution against relying on any composting strategy that doesn't get hot for treating it. That being said, vermicomposting is a wonderful way to quickly turn food waste and other less dangerous organic waste products into usable soil
        carapace 4y ago
        The prion thing was a joke. (Not prion disease, that's objectively terrifying.) > I would really caution against relying on any composting strategy that doesn't get hot for treating it. Oh yeah. If I were to use this system for human poop I'd probably go a step further and use the resulting compost only on plants that were themselves destined to be (hot) composted.
      - hansvm 4y ago
- strken 4y ago
  You're not necessarily throwing away the output from a septic tank. Composted liquid flows down output pipes and into a buried drainage field. Anecdotally, in my parents house this drainage field was located directly under a paddock full of cattle, and the grass above the drainage field was always green and lush.

culi 4y ago

Even easier than that... just don't treat it as "sewage". In Japan all the way up into the 20th century landlords often claimed a right to their residents "night soil". In pretty much everywhere except (parts of) Europe, human manure was seen as a very valuable resource. Start a compost pile and get the correct Carbon:Nitrogen ratio (~24:1). Using the Berkeley method it can reach heats of up to 200°F (93°C) within a week. You'd be surprised how quickly something like human feces can neutralized in conditions like these. The recommended wait time before direct handling is usually about 2 months but this is mostly because it's hard to be sure you've got the right ratios, temperatures, etc. Regardless, anyone trying an "offgrid" life would be wise to stop pouring effort into throwing away one of the most valuable resources humans produce

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
carapace 4y ago
I've done experiments (with items from the catbox, not my own) with vermi-composting night soil. A healthy colony of E. foetidia with vanish a turd in less than an hour or so.
- culi 4y ago
  Hmm I'm not quite sure this would actually neutralize parasites however. In composting, the actions of the microbes themselves allow the pile to reach temperatures high enough to burn your hand. These temperatures can actually be sustained for quite a while too. Even the very microbes that cause temperatures to reach that high themselves die and the only lifeforms left are some specialist thermophilic species. Vermicompost setups never reach those temperatures so I don't see how it could possibly be safe to vermicompost human feces in them...
  - carapace 4y ago
    It's a good point. The "Humanure Handbook" guy hasn't developed a prion disease, so there's that... A quick search turned up this... > As for pathogens, while there has been considerable research demonstrating the effectiveness of vermicomposting as a means of destroying pathogens, I still recommend taking a cautious approach with any material removed from the system. You may want to further process it via hot composting before using it – and you may want to avoid using it as fertilizer for food crops (even with additional measures being taken). https://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/human-waste-vermicomposting/ https://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/human-wast...
    - culi 4y ago
      > The "Humanure Handbook" guy hasn't developed a prion disease As much as HN loves obsessing over prions they're still an extremely rare phenomenon and there's few real solutions to resolving them regardless of how you deal with organic matter. Your poop is also not the only way it spreads. Saliva, urine, blood, etc all spread it. Ultimately a prion is just a protein malformed in a very specific configuration. If anything, exposing organic matter to high heat might actually reduce the risk of prions spreading than collecting all sewage together and washing it many miles away in underground tunnels But yes, there are definitely other pathogens worth thinking about that can be spread from human organic products and I would really caution against relying on any composting strategy that doesn't get hot for treating it. That being said, vermicomposting is a wonderful way to quickly turn food waste and other less dangerous organic waste products into usable soil
      - carapace 4y ago
        The prion thing was a joke. (Not prion disease, that's objectively terrifying.) > I would really caution against relying on any composting strategy that doesn't get hot for treating it. Oh yeah. If I were to use this system for human poop I'd probably go a step further and use the resulting compost only on plants that were themselves destined to be (hot) composted.
    - hansvm 4y ago
strken 4y ago
You're not necessarily throwing away the output from a septic tank. Composted liquid flows down output pipes and into a buried drainage field. Anecdotally, in my parents house this drainage field was located directly under a paddock full of cattle, and the grass above the drainage field was always green and lush.