4 ms·

The current trend of super high stack running shoes (38mm) is interesting to see. Wouldnt be surprised to see mass rolled ankles, planar fasciitis, etc. in amat

The current trend of super high stack running shoes (38mm) is interesting to see. Wouldnt be surprised to see mass rolled ankles, planar fasciitis, etc. in amateur runners over the next few years. Stop messing with your body’s existing functionality!

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
I have observed (anecdotally) an increase in calf/achilles pain and knee pain reports in high school runners transitioning between XC and track meets in which they're wearing ultra-minimalistic spikes with negligible - often negative! - heel-toe drop, and training in high-stack "cloud shoes" with enormous amounts of exotic super-cushioning foam. I think this is particularly unhelpful when marketing the same shoe design that has essentially no material under the instep or heel to elites who have the endurance and form to be poised on their toes with negligible heel contact during an entire 10k to 15-year-olds who will start off with grand ambitions and then be slogging it in for the latter two laps of the 1600.. I definitely agree that runners using these "maximalist" shoes exclusively are likely to experience more foot injuries if they ever need to transition away from them. My coaches (from as far back as...two decades ago, yikes) had us do strides on the football field barefoot, as well as occasional speed workouts on the track in spikes or spike flats to ensure that we were not only conditioning our major leg muscle groups but also smaller muscles and ligaments in the feet. If you only ever train to go straight forward with even, highly cushioned footfalls, and step in a pothole or on a rock when your muscles are at their weakest, it's not good. That said, for long, slow, distance days, I love me some cloud shoes. I just make sure to switch them up with minimalist flats for speed work and tempos once in a while, and to get some barefoot strides in when I have access to good grass.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  I run half-marathons on $55 New Balance short-tops ("regular sneakers"). I don't even know what a cloud shoe is?
  - cfeduke 3y ago
    Hokas, not sure if there are any copycat competitors in the space, there probably are.
    - pharmakom 3y ago
      The whole market has followed Hokas lead. If that’s not your jam, there are few options left.
  - pharmakom 3y ago
    Cloud shoes are shoes with a very high level of cushion (38mm is race legal limit) and support. Some have carbon fibre plates for extra bounce. Popular models from Saucony, On, Hoka, Nike, etc. It is now estimated that majority of amateur marathon runners are wearing them. This is in stark contrast to 15 years ago when minimalist and lightweight racing flats were in vogue (typically around 20mm stack for endurance events). If you walk into a runnning shop now, you are probably leaving with a pair of cloud shoes - that’s all some shops sell.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Nike’s version: https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/606d9e525113453af5734514/master/w_1600,c_limit/aaaasu19_rn_zoom_next_angle5_rectangle_1600.jpg https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/606d9e525113453af5734514/ma... If you Google Alphafly, Vaporfly, and Kipchoge, you’ll get all sorts of analysis on this type of shoe.
    - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
      Can they run kubernetes?
cfeduke 3y ago
Though its a current trend, these high stack running shoes have been around for over a decade. My running group has oscillated between this style of shoe (Hoka), NB, Brooks, and minimalist shoes. I've ran over 1,000 miles in all the major brands, the Hokas are really comfortable. I've also had severe rolled ankles because I primarily run trails. I'd say my last injury in Hokas on trail was on par with a similar injury using Merrell/Vibram sole minimalist shoes. I haven't had an IT band injury recurrence in the Hokas yet and I am approaching over 2K miles between street and trail running so as far as that goes I'm happy with them. (As any runner who is addicted to running knows, IT band injuries are the absolute worst and its important to do everything you can do to avoid them, except of course running.)
cafard 3y ago
An acquaintance liked Hokas to begin with, but found that they compressed unevenly and were not so stable then.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago

I have observed (anecdotally) an increase in calf/achilles pain and knee pain reports in high school runners transitioning between XC and track meets in which they're wearing ultra-minimalistic spikes with negligible - often negative! - heel-toe drop, and training in high-stack "cloud shoes" with enormous amounts of exotic super-cushioning foam. I think this is particularly unhelpful when marketing the same shoe design that has essentially no material under the instep or heel to elites who have the endurance and form to be poised on their toes with negligible heel contact during an entire 10k to 15-year-olds who will start off with grand ambitions and then be slogging it in for the latter two laps of the 1600.. I definitely agree that runners using these "maximalist" shoes exclusively are likely to experience more foot injuries if they ever need to transition away from them. My coaches (from as far back as...two decades ago, yikes) had us do strides on the football field barefoot, as well as occasional speed workouts on the track in spikes or spike flats to ensure that we were not only conditioning our major leg muscle groups but also smaller muscles and ligaments in the feet. If you only ever train to go straight forward with even, highly cushioned footfalls, and step in a pothole or on a rock when your muscles are at their weakest, it's not good. That said, for long, slow, distance days, I love me some cloud shoes. I just make sure to switch them up with minimalist flats for speed work and tempos once in a while, and to get some barefoot strides in when I have access to good grass.

TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
I run half-marathons on $55 New Balance short-tops ("regular sneakers"). I don't even know what a cloud shoe is?
- cfeduke 3y ago
  Hokas, not sure if there are any copycat competitors in the space, there probably are.
  - pharmakom 3y ago
    The whole market has followed Hokas lead. If that’s not your jam, there are few options left.
- pharmakom 3y ago
  Cloud shoes are shoes with a very high level of cushion (38mm is race legal limit) and support. Some have carbon fibre plates for extra bounce. Popular models from Saucony, On, Hoka, Nike, etc. It is now estimated that majority of amateur marathon runners are wearing them. This is in stark contrast to 15 years ago when minimalist and lightweight racing flats were in vogue (typically around 20mm stack for endurance events). If you walk into a runnning shop now, you are probably leaving with a pair of cloud shoes - that’s all some shops sell.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  Nike’s version: https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/606d9e525113453af5734514/master/w_1600,c_limit/aaaasu19_rn_zoom_next_angle5_rectangle_1600.jpg https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/606d9e525113453af5734514/ma... If you Google Alphafly, Vaporfly, and Kipchoge, you’ll get all sorts of analysis on this type of shoe.
  - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
    Can they run kubernetes?

cfeduke 3y ago

Though its a current trend, these high stack running shoes have been around for over a decade. My running group has oscillated between this style of shoe (Hoka), NB, Brooks, and minimalist shoes. I've ran over 1,000 miles in all the major brands, the Hokas are really comfortable. I've also had severe rolled ankles because I primarily run trails. I'd say my last injury in Hokas on trail was on par with a similar injury using Merrell/Vibram sole minimalist shoes. I haven't had an IT band injury recurrence in the Hokas yet and I am approaching over 2K miles between street and trail running so as far as that goes I'm happy with them. (As any runner who is addicted to running knows, IT band injuries are the absolute worst and its important to do everything you can do to avoid them, except of course running.)

cafard 3y ago

An acquaintance liked Hokas to begin with, but found that they compressed unevenly and were not so stable then.