4 ms·

Ah, the good'ol Windows method of forcing updates. Rely on users saying no within X seconds, otherwise go for it regardless if they want to or not. Awesome when

Ah, the good'ol Windows method of forcing updates. Rely on users saying no within X seconds, otherwise go for it regardless if they want to or not. Awesome when you didn't notice that an update happened because you were grabbing a coffee, or that the computer want to check a 2TB disk for errors upon reboot. Usually happens when you have much more important things to do at the moment.

alpaca128 3y ago
Forced reboot after an update is not the same as forced updates. It's not like Windows can update without reboot either. So far I haven't seen Mac OS force any update on me, not only that but when I accidentally activated automatic updates it showed a notification that stays on screen until you confirm/cancel the setting change.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >It's not like Windows can update without reboot either. And neither can Linux, contrary to popular belief. Anything that involves system services or god forbid the kernel requires a reboot. Yes, if the kernel wasn't updated you could meticulously reboot each individual system service that was updated instead, but why bother when you can just reboot and be done with it?
  - zamalek 3y ago
    > Anything that involves system services This is not true. NixOS, as one example, is able to figure out which services (including system) need to be restarted. > god forbid the kernel This is not true either. Live kernel updates are possible (but are usually a paid addition, e.g. https://ubuntu.com/security/livepatch https://ubuntu.com/security/livepatch).
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      In the case of an update involving a shared library you would still have to close and restart every single program that links against it though, right? Which if we’re talking about something like glibc you might as well just reboot.
      - zamalek 3y ago
        If you wanted the change to take effect then, yes, you would need to restart those apps. Because of the way that NixOS deals with dependencies, the old versions would still be around for running apps to use and carry on. It might actually be a useful tool for NixOS: finding out which processes have a specific version of a module loaded, so that the user can be warned to restart those processes. If the user wants to restart processes they can, if they want to just reboot they can also. Simply because it's "simpler" to do one, doesn't mean it's the correct universal choice in all circumstances. My wife, for example, leaves way to much crap open and leaves her laptop suspended - a restart is a serious issue for her.
      - commoner 3y ago
        I've never had to reboot Linux after a glibc update if I didn't care whether the new version was being used. In general, glibc updates are not important enough to interrupt what I'm doing to reboot my device and I'll just shut down or reboot my device the next time I normally do.
  - commoner 3y ago
    > And neither can Linux, contrary to popular belief. Anything that involves system services or god forbid the kernel requires a reboot. That is not true at all, and anyone can confirm this by upgrading the kernel and system services (e.g. desktop environment, display manager, systemd) on Arch Linux and verifying that just about everything continues to work normally. In my experience, the only things that require a reboot are a few particular kernel modules (such as the VirtualBox host modules) and only if you are going to use those modules. Even in that case, it is still your choice whether you want to reboot.
    - formerly_proven 3y ago
      Gnome, KDE and also Firefox and Chrome don't seem to be particularly fond of updates being applied under their ass, probably because they are heavy on dynamic code loading and spawning workers with unstable APIs, respectively. Firefox even added some code to detect this and show a blank page with "You gotta restart Firefox before you can open new tabs" instead of crashing. Edit: Another classic is upgrading the kernel on Arch, not rebooting, then trying to use a thumb drive for the first time since the last boot. Since Arch uses one package for all kernel versions, only one set of loadable modules is installed per kernel package - so upgrading the package removes the loadable modules of the currently running kernel.
      - commoner 3y ago
        I do restart browsers after upgrading them, but that's different from restarting Linux. For desktop environments, I usually don't bother rebooting Linux for anything other than major releases (like GNOME 43/44 and Plasma 5.26/5.27) since most of the minor releases don't make enough of a difference in day to day use to interrupt what I'm doing.
  - pshirshov 3y ago
    Systemd maintains a graph of relationships between running services. It can mark all the nodes which depend on a node, properly shutdown them then start again.

alpaca128 3y ago

Forced reboot after an update is not the same as forced updates. It's not like Windows can update without reboot either. So far I haven't seen Mac OS force any update on me, not only that but when I accidentally activated automatic updates it showed a notification that stays on screen until you confirm/cancel the setting change.

Dalewyn 3y ago
>It's not like Windows can update without reboot either. And neither can Linux, contrary to popular belief. Anything that involves system services or god forbid the kernel requires a reboot. Yes, if the kernel wasn't updated you could meticulously reboot each individual system service that was updated instead, but why bother when you can just reboot and be done with it?
- zamalek 3y ago
  > Anything that involves system services This is not true. NixOS, as one example, is able to figure out which services (including system) need to be restarted. > god forbid the kernel This is not true either. Live kernel updates are possible (but are usually a paid addition, e.g. https://ubuntu.com/security/livepatch https://ubuntu.com/security/livepatch).
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    In the case of an update involving a shared library you would still have to close and restart every single program that links against it though, right? Which if we’re talking about something like glibc you might as well just reboot.
    - zamalek 3y ago
      If you wanted the change to take effect then, yes, you would need to restart those apps. Because of the way that NixOS deals with dependencies, the old versions would still be around for running apps to use and carry on. It might actually be a useful tool for NixOS: finding out which processes have a specific version of a module loaded, so that the user can be warned to restart those processes. If the user wants to restart processes they can, if they want to just reboot they can also. Simply because it's "simpler" to do one, doesn't mean it's the correct universal choice in all circumstances. My wife, for example, leaves way to much crap open and leaves her laptop suspended - a restart is a serious issue for her.
    - commoner 3y ago
      I've never had to reboot Linux after a glibc update if I didn't care whether the new version was being used. In general, glibc updates are not important enough to interrupt what I'm doing to reboot my device and I'll just shut down or reboot my device the next time I normally do.
- commoner 3y ago
  > And neither can Linux, contrary to popular belief. Anything that involves system services or god forbid the kernel requires a reboot. That is not true at all, and anyone can confirm this by upgrading the kernel and system services (e.g. desktop environment, display manager, systemd) on Arch Linux and verifying that just about everything continues to work normally. In my experience, the only things that require a reboot are a few particular kernel modules (such as the VirtualBox host modules) and only if you are going to use those modules. Even in that case, it is still your choice whether you want to reboot.
  - formerly_proven 3y ago
    Gnome, KDE and also Firefox and Chrome don't seem to be particularly fond of updates being applied under their ass, probably because they are heavy on dynamic code loading and spawning workers with unstable APIs, respectively. Firefox even added some code to detect this and show a blank page with "You gotta restart Firefox before you can open new tabs" instead of crashing. Edit: Another classic is upgrading the kernel on Arch, not rebooting, then trying to use a thumb drive for the first time since the last boot. Since Arch uses one package for all kernel versions, only one set of loadable modules is installed per kernel package - so upgrading the package removes the loadable modules of the currently running kernel.
    - commoner 3y ago
      I do restart browsers after upgrading them, but that's different from restarting Linux. For desktop environments, I usually don't bother rebooting Linux for anything other than major releases (like GNOME 43/44 and Plasma 5.26/5.27) since most of the minor releases don't make enough of a difference in day to day use to interrupt what I'm doing.
- pshirshov 3y ago
  Systemd maintains a graph of relationships between running services. It can mark all the nodes which depend on a node, properly shutdown them then start again.