4 ms·

Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR? I believe it also mentioned freedom of expression, freedom of religion and freedom of as

by vondur 3y ago

Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR? I believe it also mentioned freedom of expression, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly, all of which seemed to be ignored.

0xDEF 3y ago
>Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR The Soviet Union did allow some internal dissent and freedom of speech from 1985 to 1991. That might have accelerated its downfall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasnost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasnost
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  I seem to remember a similar thing happening under Mao for a brief period of time, followed by a near total crackdown on anyone who had decided to speak up.
flowerbreeze 3y ago
I think more accurate would be to say it allowed freedom from expression, freedom from religion and freedom from assembly. Unless in the service of the communist party of course.
- lb1lf 3y ago
  A former colleague of mine, born and raised in the USSR, liked to quip that there was only one minor difference in the way freedom of expression was implemented in the USSR and in the West. Both places guaranteed the freedom to express oneself, but only the West guaranteed your freedom also after you'd expressed yourself.
  - lovecg 3y ago
    “In America we have freedoms. I can stand in front of the White House and shout, ‘President Truman is a moron!’” “Big deal, it’s the same here. I can also stand in the middle of the Red Square and shout ‘President Truman is a moron’”.
r00fus 3y ago
Many many cultures do not share the US's "unfettered freedom of speech". Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? So yeah, it's complicated.
- legitster 3y ago
  > Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? Uhhhh... we literally just had an entire summer of people shutting down cities to voice their frustration over police. My personal unwillingness to start cursing out every cop I see is not actually a good litmus test for my freedom of speech.
  - yucatansunshine 3y ago
    how many protestors got ran over by said police (and the reason for why these protests happened in the first place) is a good litmus test though
  - cpursley 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - mempko 3y ago
    Ok, but without consequence? There were a thousands of arrests and people hurt/killed voicing their frustration. Even journalists were shot at with rubber bullets and arrested. Yes, that's right, journalists were shot at and arrested by police in the US.
- mannerheim 3y ago
  freedom of speech in the US isn't perfect and the rest of the West is worse so the USSR really did have freedom of speech after all i am very smart!
int_19h 3y ago
It wasn't followed, of course. Indeed, the early dissident movement in 1960s started with demands for the government to actually follow the constitution, and then kinda evolved from there. But also, as usual with constitutions, the wording in many cases is vague enough to allow for some ... creative interpretations. In preparation for the 1980 Olympics, Soviets published a pamphlet titled "USSR: 100 questions and answers", meant primarily for Soviet citizens as an agitprop manual - basically a list of precanned answers to the most common questions that Western tourists were expected to ask. It is a hilarious read, but also very informative if you want to know how it was all sold in official propaganda. https://sovtime.ru/answers https://sovtime.ru/answers (So far as I know, it's only available in Russian, but automated translation is good enough these days.)

by vondur 3y ago

0xDEF 3y ago

>Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR The Soviet Union did allow some internal dissent and freedom of speech from 1985 to 1991. That might have accelerated its downfall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasnost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasnost

sidewndr46 3y ago
I seem to remember a similar thing happening under Mao for a brief period of time, followed by a near total crackdown on anyone who had decided to speak up.

flowerbreeze 3y ago

I think more accurate would be to say it allowed freedom from expression, freedom from religion and freedom from assembly. Unless in the service of the communist party of course.

lb1lf 3y ago
A former colleague of mine, born and raised in the USSR, liked to quip that there was only one minor difference in the way freedom of expression was implemented in the USSR and in the West. Both places guaranteed the freedom to express oneself, but only the West guaranteed your freedom also after you'd expressed yourself.
- lovecg 3y ago
  “In America we have freedoms. I can stand in front of the White House and shout, ‘President Truman is a moron!’” “Big deal, it’s the same here. I can also stand in the middle of the Red Square and shout ‘President Truman is a moron’”.

r00fus 3y ago

Many many cultures do not share the US's "unfettered freedom of speech". Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? So yeah, it's complicated.

legitster 3y ago
> Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? Uhhhh... we literally just had an entire summer of people shutting down cities to voice their frustration over police. My personal unwillingness to start cursing out every cop I see is not actually a good litmus test for my freedom of speech.
- yucatansunshine 3y ago
  how many protestors got ran over by said police (and the reason for why these protests happened in the first place) is a good litmus test though
- cpursley 3y ago
  [flagged]
- mempko 3y ago
  Ok, but without consequence? There were a thousands of arrests and people hurt/killed voicing their frustration. Even journalists were shot at with rubber bullets and arrested. Yes, that's right, journalists were shot at and arrested by police in the US.
mannerheim 3y ago
freedom of speech in the US isn't perfect and the rest of the West is worse so the USSR really did have freedom of speech after all i am very smart!

int_19h 3y ago

It wasn't followed, of course. Indeed, the early dissident movement in 1960s started with demands for the government to actually follow the constitution, and then kinda evolved from there. But also, as usual with constitutions, the wording in many cases is vague enough to allow for some ... creative interpretations. In preparation for the 1980 Olympics, Soviets published a pamphlet titled "USSR: 100 questions and answers", meant primarily for Soviet citizens as an agitprop manual - basically a list of precanned answers to the most common questions that Western tourists were expected to ask. It is a hilarious read, but also very informative if you want to know how it was all sold in official propaganda. https://sovtime.ru/answers https://sovtime.ru/answers (So far as I know, it's only available in Russian, but automated translation is good enough these days.)