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> People famously have the political systems that they deserve. This sentiment is widely expressed, but it seems absurd and offensive to me. Citizens of countr

> People famously have the political systems that they deserve. This sentiment is widely expressed, but it seems absurd and offensive to me. Citizens of countries such as Finland, Switzerland and Singapore enjoy much superior quality of government to what we have in the US. Does that mean Americans are ethically or intellectually inferior to Finns, Swiss, and Singaporeans? The government of Pakistan is not very good: does that mean Pakistanis are less ethical or intelligent?

MichaelZuo 3y ago
I've always thought the implication of the saying is that in aggregate they are. I don't think that necessarily translates to the median individual.
nologic01 3y ago
Unless you believe in overlords or secret societies the quality of government is more or less a direct result of the ethical constitution of a society - at least for a sovereign nation. The difficulty is that it is a collective phenomenon - as you can establish fairly easily by picking somebody from society X and embedding them in society Y. Ofcourse there is no collective without individuals, so ultimately it is aspects of individually adopted ethical codes and behaviors that it is responsible for a poor collective organization. A standalone computer that operates reasonably but is connected to other computers via a broken API's will lead to overall broken network operations. There is also something we might call a society's "intellectual constitution", the collective ability to execute required changes, devise institutions and tools etc. But this is subordinated to the ethical dimension (where there is a will there is always a way).
slt2021 3y ago
in US its not people who have government they deserve. It is Corporations have the government they pay/lobby for. only in the US there are voters and political donors/lobbyist. Other developed countries only have voters decide on election outcome & policy.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

I've always thought the implication of the saying is that in aggregate they are. I don't think that necessarily translates to the median individual.

nologic01 3y ago

Unless you believe in overlords or secret societies the quality of government is more or less a direct result of the ethical constitution of a society - at least for a sovereign nation. The difficulty is that it is a collective phenomenon - as you can establish fairly easily by picking somebody from society X and embedding them in society Y. Ofcourse there is no collective without individuals, so ultimately it is aspects of individually adopted ethical codes and behaviors that it is responsible for a poor collective organization. A standalone computer that operates reasonably but is connected to other computers via a broken API's will lead to overall broken network operations. There is also something we might call a society's "intellectual constitution", the collective ability to execute required changes, devise institutions and tools etc. But this is subordinated to the ethical dimension (where there is a will there is always a way).

slt2021 3y ago

in US its not people who have government they deserve. It is Corporations have the government they pay/lobby for. only in the US there are voters and political donors/lobbyist. Other developed countries only have voters decide on election outcome & policy.