6 ms·

I have seen on my feed a picture of Hitler with a sympathetic quote from an account called "Racial Consciousness" with a blue check mark. I could not even imagi

I have seen on my feed a picture of Hitler with a sympathetic quote from an account called "Racial Consciousness" with a blue check mark. I could not even imagine seeing that before Elon took over. So for me, yes, there are definitely white supremacists increasingly dominating my feed.

throwaway894345 3y ago
Are you sure that wasn't satire? Poe's law and all that?
- Kye 3y ago
  Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target lest it be mistaken for and contribute to that which it intends to criticize.
  - throwaway894345 3y ago
    I agree, but (1) not all satire is good satire and (2) not everyone is adept at picking up on good satire and (3) even those who are adept at picking up good satire might miss something once in a while.
- flangola7 3y ago
  "It was just a joke" is a common distraction technique used by neonazis and other social conservatives. When seen it is safe to presume bad faith until proven otherwise.
  - throwaway894345 3y ago
    It’s also used far more frequently by ordinary people who tell jokes. “You know who else drank water? Hitler!” Am I joking, or am I pointing out the silliness of taking something as mundane as “humor” and portraying it as something uniquely fascist?
    - flangola7 3y ago
      I don't know any "ordinary" people that go around telling racist nazi-type "jokes." This isn't some kind of nuanced topic, the facts of the matter are evident, there's just nazis and nazi-enablers playing interference and trying to fabricate uncertainty many of which are in this very thread. As we learned long ago there are very effective tools that defeat social conservatives such as nazis, entertaining their ideas is not one of those tools.
      - throwaway894345 3y ago
        I think you're confusing "jokes about Nazis" for "Nazi-type jokes". A Nazi isn't very likely to joke about the semblances between fascism and some far-left identity ideology for the same reasons far-left identitarians don't make those jokes. And my "You know who else drank water? Hitler!" example is a common example of a satirical joke about Nazis, so clearly ordinary people do tell jokes about Nazis (to varying degrees of subtlety).
- arolihas 3y ago
  Can you explain what this would be satirizing?
  - throwaway894345 3y ago
    It would be satirizing "race consciousness" by highlighting parallels between it and traditional right-wing racism as embodied by Hitler in this case. I'm not necessarily endorsing that interpretation, but it is a common point made by critics of left-wing identity politics.
    - arolihas 3y ago
      So Nazis were conscious of race because they wanted to commit genocide. Left wingers are conscious of race because they want to eradicate social inequities. Yeah, personally I wouldn't waste my time trying to downplay this sort of discourse as a joke.
      - throwaway894345 3y ago
        I'm not "trying to downplay"; this really only makes sense as satire (actual Nazis probably wouldn't borrow leftist phrases like "race consciousness" because they see themselves as opposed to leftists as leftists see themselves as opposed to Nazis). It seems like it is almost certainly quipping about the ironic similarities between two ideologies that purport to be polar opposites (fixation with race, tendency toward mass violence in the extremes, etc). I'm sure that a leftist and a right-winger see the Holocaust and Holodomor as completely different (the Holomor was merely Stalin's persuit of "eradicating social inequities"!), but to a moderate these feel a lot more similar to each other than either of them feel similar to any reasonably desirable moral or political order. So in my mind, this only really works as moderate satire.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        > actual Nazis probably wouldn't borrow leftist phrases like "race consciousness" The most definitively actual of actual Nazis borrowed leftist phrases like “Socialism” right into the name of the party from which “Nazi” is abbreviated, as well as a lot of other leftist language (while radically recontextualizing the meaning.) Borrowing language from existing left, right, center, religious, and secular groups, and then rearranging and defining them to create the appearance that the natural endpoint of whatever your existing ideology is is Nazism is what actual Nazis do.

throwaway894345 3y ago

Are you sure that wasn't satire? Poe's law and all that?

Kye 3y ago
Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target lest it be mistaken for and contribute to that which it intends to criticize.
- throwaway894345 3y ago
  I agree, but (1) not all satire is good satire and (2) not everyone is adept at picking up on good satire and (3) even those who are adept at picking up good satire might miss something once in a while.
flangola7 3y ago
"It was just a joke" is a common distraction technique used by neonazis and other social conservatives. When seen it is safe to presume bad faith until proven otherwise.
- throwaway894345 3y ago
  It’s also used far more frequently by ordinary people who tell jokes. “You know who else drank water? Hitler!” Am I joking, or am I pointing out the silliness of taking something as mundane as “humor” and portraying it as something uniquely fascist?
  - flangola7 3y ago
    I don't know any "ordinary" people that go around telling racist nazi-type "jokes." This isn't some kind of nuanced topic, the facts of the matter are evident, there's just nazis and nazi-enablers playing interference and trying to fabricate uncertainty many of which are in this very thread. As we learned long ago there are very effective tools that defeat social conservatives such as nazis, entertaining their ideas is not one of those tools.
    - throwaway894345 3y ago
      I think you're confusing "jokes about Nazis" for "Nazi-type jokes". A Nazi isn't very likely to joke about the semblances between fascism and some far-left identity ideology for the same reasons far-left identitarians don't make those jokes. And my "You know who else drank water? Hitler!" example is a common example of a satirical joke about Nazis, so clearly ordinary people do tell jokes about Nazis (to varying degrees of subtlety).
arolihas 3y ago
Can you explain what this would be satirizing?
- throwaway894345 3y ago
  It would be satirizing "race consciousness" by highlighting parallels between it and traditional right-wing racism as embodied by Hitler in this case. I'm not necessarily endorsing that interpretation, but it is a common point made by critics of left-wing identity politics.
  - arolihas 3y ago
    So Nazis were conscious of race because they wanted to commit genocide. Left wingers are conscious of race because they want to eradicate social inequities. Yeah, personally I wouldn't waste my time trying to downplay this sort of discourse as a joke.
    - throwaway894345 3y ago
      I'm not "trying to downplay"; this really only makes sense as satire (actual Nazis probably wouldn't borrow leftist phrases like "race consciousness" because they see themselves as opposed to leftists as leftists see themselves as opposed to Nazis). It seems like it is almost certainly quipping about the ironic similarities between two ideologies that purport to be polar opposites (fixation with race, tendency toward mass violence in the extremes, etc). I'm sure that a leftist and a right-winger see the Holocaust and Holodomor as completely different (the Holomor was merely Stalin's persuit of "eradicating social inequities"!), but to a moderate these feel a lot more similar to each other than either of them feel similar to any reasonably desirable moral or political order. So in my mind, this only really works as moderate satire.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        > actual Nazis probably wouldn't borrow leftist phrases like "race consciousness" The most definitively actual of actual Nazis borrowed leftist phrases like “Socialism” right into the name of the party from which “Nazi” is abbreviated, as well as a lot of other leftist language (while radically recontextualizing the meaning.) Borrowing language from existing left, right, center, religious, and secular groups, and then rearranging and defining them to create the appearance that the natural endpoint of whatever your existing ideology is is Nazism is what actual Nazis do.