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Between Social Media, Cambridge Analytica, the Climate Crisis, Pandemic and (mostly) Russian disinfo, etc, it is already the case that most people have a really

by Lutger 3y ago

Between Social Media, Cambridge Analytica, the Climate Crisis, Pandemic and (mostly) Russian disinfo, etc, it is already the case that most people have a really hard time knowing what is true. I don't claim to have much foresight, but an online world where truly and obviously nothing can be trusted might be a good thing. Because when AI generated content looks and feels the same as real content, nothing is to be trusted anymore by anyone. This makes misinfo and disinfo authored by humans even less impactful, because they are parasitic upon true and reliable information. We will need new devices of trust, which are robust enough to protect against widespread use of generative AI, and as a byproduct disinfo won't have such an easy time to grift on our naivety.

nologic01 3y ago
> We will need new devices of trust... the challenge is that the pace at which existing (imperfect) devices of trust get destroyed (e.g. the demise of ads financed journalism) is far faster that the rate of new device invention in fact the only positive example after many decades of "digital innovation" might be wikipedia
ModernMech 3y ago
The problem is, when no one trusts anything, it makes room for men who promise everything, but can deliver nothing. We call them "dictators" and "authoritarians", but others call them "strong men" because they are envied by those who seek power. If you look around the world, you can see authoritarian movements rising, especially here in the USA.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  This attitude is what actually makes room for the authoritarians. Our democratic systems today are built with a lot of self-healing mechanisms against this exact kind of authoritarianism. The desire to circumvent those mechanisms because "it's different this time, I swear" is what makes room for dictators and authoritarians. This happens all the time in third-world countries that try to set up democracies: the dictator comes in after someone starts tweaking with the rules in the name of "safety." Society has been through several paradigm shifts that have accelerated the spread of misinformation, and survived them.
  - LesZedCB 3y ago
    self-healing? can you describe them? personally I think democracy is particularly fragile and requires constant work to continue reproducing.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      Sure, here are a few: * Elections that are regular and trusted * Separation of powers * Bills of rights and other limitations on the power of government * Free speech, freedom to protest, etc. * Transparency rules (eg the Freedom of Information Act) * Reporters and news media * Protections for whistleblowers * Jury trials * Presumption of innocence * Term limits The combination of all of these things means that the truth does eventually get around and the powerful are eventually held accountable. It can take a while (see how long it took to really get a decent lawsuit against the orange man), but it happens. In contrast, throughout history, people have tried to circumvent these mechanisms in order to make them run faster. Inevitably, that leads to people who exploit them for power. Many countries in Europe and North America have had democratic systems that have lasted 150+ years, including through the reigns of several would-be dictators, but they continue. You may have noticed that all of these "self-healing" mechanisms rely on the work of people in the system, and they do take constant work to maintain, but that doesn't mean that the system is fragile.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Capricorn2481 3y ago
        Half of these things in the U.S. are broken - Elections are no longer trusted thanks to a radicalized right - There is no freedom to protest, and the right to free speech is easily forgotten, distorted, misapplied. - The news can say whatever it wants without consequence, unless another big corporation sues them. - There are absolutely not protections for whistleblowers. We have seen this time and time again. - In such a divided and hateful climate, jury trials are regular people bringing their personal biases to the court room. Picture the average person and decide if your freedom is safe in their hands. That's forgetting that Jury's decisions can be overridden (Breonna Taylor) - Presumption of innocence (see above) - There should be term limits for Supreme Court justices, whose seats were completely stolen from the democratic party.

by Lutger 3y ago

nologic01 3y ago

> We will need new devices of trust... the challenge is that the pace at which existing (imperfect) devices of trust get destroyed (e.g. the demise of ads financed journalism) is far faster that the rate of new device invention in fact the only positive example after many decades of "digital innovation" might be wikipedia

ModernMech 3y ago

The problem is, when no one trusts anything, it makes room for men who promise everything, but can deliver nothing. We call them "dictators" and "authoritarians", but others call them "strong men" because they are envied by those who seek power. If you look around the world, you can see authoritarian movements rising, especially here in the USA.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
This attitude is what actually makes room for the authoritarians. Our democratic systems today are built with a lot of self-healing mechanisms against this exact kind of authoritarianism. The desire to circumvent those mechanisms because "it's different this time, I swear" is what makes room for dictators and authoritarians. This happens all the time in third-world countries that try to set up democracies: the dictator comes in after someone starts tweaking with the rules in the name of "safety." Society has been through several paradigm shifts that have accelerated the spread of misinformation, and survived them.
- LesZedCB 3y ago
  self-healing? can you describe them? personally I think democracy is particularly fragile and requires constant work to continue reproducing.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    Sure, here are a few: * Elections that are regular and trusted * Separation of powers * Bills of rights and other limitations on the power of government * Free speech, freedom to protest, etc. * Transparency rules (eg the Freedom of Information Act) * Reporters and news media * Protections for whistleblowers * Jury trials * Presumption of innocence * Term limits The combination of all of these things means that the truth does eventually get around and the powerful are eventually held accountable. It can take a while (see how long it took to really get a decent lawsuit against the orange man), but it happens. In contrast, throughout history, people have tried to circumvent these mechanisms in order to make them run faster. Inevitably, that leads to people who exploit them for power. Many countries in Europe and North America have had democratic systems that have lasted 150+ years, including through the reigns of several would-be dictators, but they continue. You may have noticed that all of these "self-healing" mechanisms rely on the work of people in the system, and they do take constant work to maintain, but that doesn't mean that the system is fragile.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Capricorn2481 3y ago
      Half of these things in the U.S. are broken - Elections are no longer trusted thanks to a radicalized right - There is no freedom to protest, and the right to free speech is easily forgotten, distorted, misapplied. - The news can say whatever it wants without consequence, unless another big corporation sues them. - There are absolutely not protections for whistleblowers. We have seen this time and time again. - In such a divided and hateful climate, jury trials are regular people bringing their personal biases to the court room. Picture the average person and decide if your freedom is safe in their hands. That's forgetting that Jury's decisions can be overridden (Breonna Taylor) - Presumption of innocence (see above) - There should be term limits for Supreme Court justices, whose seats were completely stolen from the democratic party.