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Hyundai and Kia cars are popular here in Australia (I own a 2017 Hyundai) but I haven't heard anything about thefts here. Turns out it's because of Australian r

• tedkalaw 3y ago
  If you haven’t heard of the Kia boys over here in the states, it’s definitely something. This vid is…a bit controversial but the Kia boys are definitely a thing in Milwaukee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw
  • neurobama 3y ago
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    • naikrovek 3y ago
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      • Auracle 3y ago
        https://abc7chicago.com/amp/cristian-uvidia-west-garfield-park-chicago-crash-kim-foxx/13181868/ https://abc7chicago.com/amp/cristian-uvidia-west-garfield-pa...
      • neurobama 3y ago
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        • naikrovek 3y ago
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          • neurobama 3y ago
            >Why? Do we treat minorities poorly? No, they come here from all over the world to find happiness and prosperity.
            • chwa982 3y ago
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              • ForHackernews 3y ago
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            • dang 3y ago
              You may or may not have intentionally started a flamewar in this thread, but you've certainly broken the site guidelines by perpetuating it badly. Please stop and please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: when a new account shows up with a dossier of links under one arm and a briefcase of arguments under the other, on a classic flamewar topic, that's not a good-faith use of the site. Pre-existing agendas are not what HN is for. They're repetitive, tedious, and usually inflammatory—certainly that's the case in this thread. This destroys the curious conversation that the site is supposed to be for, so please stop doing this.
      • deleted 3y ago
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    • Glawen 3y ago
      > It's taboo to address this because of the color of their skin. Indeed, I wish one day we backtrack on this stupidity. Name and shame regardless of colour and stop this imposed self censorship.
    • Arainach 3y ago
      >If these were white kids we'd publicly shame them, crack down on the worst offenders, and figure out a program to help the rest back on track. They're black so we don't, and this is somehow less racist. I do not understand it. Would we? This is merely grand theft auto, not rape or murder, so why would we treat them worse than Brock Turner or Kyle Rittenhouse? If they were white, why not give them a book deal?
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      • defen 3y ago
        Kyle Rittenhouse didn't commit any crimes. Brock Turner received public vitriol commensurate with his crimes; I think a better comparison would be with the hockey player who pushed an empty wheelchair down some stairs. It's indefensible but at the end of the day not the kind of thing that warrants an Internet Week of Hate. Certainly less bad than hundreds of acts of grand theft auto.
        • Broken_Hippo 3y ago
          It's indefensible but at the end of the day not the kind of thing that warrants an Internet Week of Hate. I'm sorry, but what? Brock Turner was convicted of sexual assault. He served 3 months, and likely gave someone else a lifetime of hurt because he couldn't control his sexual urges to the point he was willing to have sex with an unconscious person. He served 3 months. after being rich enough to post bail and hire decent lawyers. But somehow, he doesn't deserve hate and this is less bad than grand theft auto?
          • neurobama 3y ago
            >He served 3 months. after being rich enough to post bail and hire decent lawyers. This became national news and the judge involved was recalled: https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-132/california-judge-recalled-for-sentence-in-sexual-assault-case/ https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-132/california-judge-... We'll all know Brock Turner's name and his crime for the rest of our lives. I believe this is an exception that proves the rule.
    • throwawayadvsec 3y ago
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      • neurobama 3y ago
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        • throwawayadvsec 3y ago
          Mentioning a 1958 article to justify your racism really doesn't help. "Abetting the concealment campaign is the feeling shared by many whites that it is unfair, inflammatory and even un-American to talk about Negro crime." This is the first sentence of the article, dude, seriously. It's really sad to see more and more far right racists on HN, this place used to be filled with smart people.
          • neurobama 3y ago
            "Negro" was the word in common use by people of all races at the time. Wikipedia: >Negro was accepted as normal, both as exonym and endonym, until the late 1960s, after the later Civil Rights Movement. One example is Martin Luther King Jr. self-identification as Negro in his famous "I Have a Dream" speech of 1963. Do you have any comment on the content of the article?
      • alvah 3y ago
        you're not helping, both by casually calling people Nazis, thus cheapening the slur, and by pretending race isn't a factor.
    • mjevans 3y ago
      You are wrong to focus on the color of someone's skin. Classism is the issue. Opportunity is the issue. Greed of the wealthy reaping rents in a quest to squeeze out every last bit of blood money possible is the issue. Even the choice to forego a proper security system for the cars is an example of greed, of cutting every corner possible and still charging a premium. Who pays? On both ends of this equation it is the poor.
      • neurobama 3y ago
        It's not strictly speaking the color of anyone's skin, but the taboos around discussing criminals of a certain shade that bugs me. >Classism is the issue. Crime does correlate somewhat with income, but racial differences in rates of violent crime are poorly explained by income level. Page 93, Table 6: https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/99v05n3/9909levi.pdf https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/9... And here, see "Analysis of the Combined Data" and the conclusion section: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/11/16/racial-differences-in-homicide-rates-are-poorly-explained-by-economics/ https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/11/16/racial-differe... The author claims a large amount of the difference is explained by family structure. I'm inclined to agree, and I wish our leaders touched on this more often. You can't welfare or police your way out of a failed subculture where kids aren't raised to respect life and property, or themselves for that matter.
        • simoom22 3y ago
          Um, have you been to America before, or read any of it's history? Of course we don't openly discuss the racialized class of cheap reserve peon labor that is maintained for everyone else's benefit, that would be super uncomfortable.
        • ethanbond 3y ago
          It’s worth pointing out that insofar as the failed subculture is failed, its failure was deliberate. Same thing happened with Native Americans. The playbooks for destroying cultures are centuries old and they’re intended to reap exactly the sort of dysfunction you still see generations down the road. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be addressing the issue head on and talking about it openly, but it’s definitely more complex than the genetic argument that tends to emerge.
    • pjc50 3y ago
      > If these were white kids we'd publicly shame them, crack down on the worst offenders, and figure out a program to help the rest back on track. The problem is that black kids get publicly shamed and cracked down on when they haven't done anything, making that ineffective, and nobody bothers with the third part of actual programs to help them.
      • neurobama 3y ago
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      • throwiepshkins 3y ago
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    • mplewis 3y ago
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      • neurobama 3y ago
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    • kotaKat 3y ago
      The easier solution would be for TikTok et al to have proper moderation controls and have nipped this in the bud when the first video dropped, but ByteDance just wants to instill chaos in the American public so they don't care one iota.
      • gordian-mind 3y ago
        It's hilariously misguided to blame TikTok for this, you realize that don't you?
        • ethanbond 3y ago
          It’s hilariously misguided to look for singular causes and singular fixes for any issue that persists beyond the first few attempts to solve it. They’re almost always overdetermined and multicausal, and yes, media (not TikTok alone) does play some role in the system.
          • throwiepshkins 3y ago
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          • gordian-mind 3y ago
            > It’s hilariously misguided to look for singular causes and singular fixes for any issue that persists beyond the first few attempts to solve it. Sorry but that's wrong. If you try to fix an issue by doing useless things, such as attacking TikTok, and then conclude that the problem is not solved because it is "overdetermined and multicausal", you just confused yourself into impotence.
            • ethanbond 3y ago
              You should of course start with your highest-conviction fixes and I don’t think TikTok lands there. But no, most persistent behaviors, not even problems specifically, are multicausal and overdetermined. Behaviors that are not this way are fragile and rarely persist long enough to even be labeled as “a behavior”.
    • concordDance 3y ago
      This is a rather heat generating post (as opposed to light). I think the things that cause this are: * References to some supposed collective discourse ("so many refuse to discuss this."). * Statements about what "we" do (who is "we"? Americans? Anglos? English speakers? The world?). * Heavily political topic central to the USA Culture War. * Use of (USA) identity group divisions ("white", "black"). I think this is a really unproductive line of discourse and a particularly bad way of approaching that line, focusing on consensus building and a call to action (in this case, a change of discourse). I think this post is unsuitable for hackernews.
      • neurobama 3y ago
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        • concordDance 3y ago
          And do you think your post has lead to productive discourse or just culture war thread number 63548?
          • neurobama 3y ago
            I think a lot of people who didn't know the contours of this auto theft crime wave, or perhaps even know such a crime wave was happening, now have a better understanding of what's happening and why.
      • junofan 3y ago
        It’s the comment section on an American car blog article posted to an American news site owned by an American startup accelerator. What do you expect?
      • chasil 3y ago
        For myself, I choose not to address the question. I stand to gain nothing from it, so it seems pointless to pursue it. However, what do you think is a productive line of discourse on this problem, that makes light and not heat? It seems a quandry to me.
    • sumedh 3y ago
      > If these were white kids we'd publicly shame them Not sure why you want make this a black and white issue. So instead of stealing cars do you want them to destroy the economy and get bailouts or steal college seats from deserving candidates by just buying college admissions, you want them to do "respectable" crimes?
  • wolverine876 3y ago
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    • 7speter 3y ago
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    • finikytou 3y ago
      please do not assume what a black person would think. also, there isn't a "black" person. I know its hard for many "nice liberals" but black people are diverse and do not share a monoculture or single thoughts. stop generalizing over race or even skin color. that is way more racist than op comment.
• djaychela 3y ago
  I think that's the case everywhere - certainly all cars in the UK haha immobilisers as standard. However, there are some brands of car where it's possible to gain access to the CAN bus, and inject "start the car" messages, so then it's just a case of a standard ignition lock theft (which is easily done in old school sawn off bit of scaffold pole style). Some cars headlight wiring connects to the same CAN bus as the immobiliser, making the theft easy from outside the car. Don't have the link handy, but there was an article on here a few weeks ago about it.
  • PaulHoule 3y ago
    Before the keyless entry fad most cars had a locking steering column that would require you to break the the locking mechanism, which you could do by twisting it really hard with a crowbar. (If you were lucky the owners had “The Club” which was advertised in The Rush Limbaugh Show, and you could use that to get leverage.) Between dealing with that and the immobilizer, stealing a car was a big hassle and car thefts were rare.
• PaulHoule 3y ago
  There was a feeling that car thefts were a crisis in the 1970s so almost cars have had immobilizer and a locking steering column since the 1980s in the US. I guess it wasn’t required but i do know insurance companies would give you a small discount for having an immobilizer. I hotwired an old 1970s “boat of car” in 1992 (with permission) but i had no idea how you’d steal a car newer than that. Car thefts fell out of fashion and the new fear became “carjackings” where somebody steals you car at gunpoint when you’re driving it. By the 2010s people had forgotten that car theft was a problem and I started hearing stories about cars being stolen with insecure keyless entry systems, now sometimes they smash a headlight and hack into the CAN bus. It’s a fairly predictable problem in law enforcement and crime management that people have a finite list of priorities to attend to and if they decide to do something about car thefts or excessive false alarms or racism or whatever we get some improvements but once there is improvement people get worried about something else then the old problems come back.
  • deeesstoronto 3y ago
    Nowadays it really depends on how the immobilizer works to figure out how to/if you can override it easily. I'm familiar with a couple designs - and on my vehicle I found it trivial to temporarily override (with the wiring diagram in the service manual). My vehicles are on the older end of having immobilizers, but on them automakers certainly didn't integrate it tightly with other systems. It is controlled by one of the main ECUs - but the lockout method is subpar. Better integration of the immobilizer goes along with the development of new engine management systems - so there may be more integration on vehicles with the newest engine designs (but not necessarily if the engine descended from a previous design and they kept the engine management system mostly intact....). Some immobilizers disable starting, some disable fuel pump, some disable ignition, and some disable injectors. The how these are electrically disabled also matters a lot. It's still trivial to override the first two methods, and sometimes the second two, but at least the last two have the potential to require more than a wire to disable if they are better integrated with the ECU.
    • Zach_the_Lizard 3y ago
      The last two methods--disabling ignition and disabling fuel injection--can be defeated by bringing your own ECU and / or other chips so that your key unlocks everything. That could even be quick, depending on the make and model of the car. The next step is to make all components work only if they can verify the ECU is the right one via the cryptographic solution du jour. But this also complicates replacing wear components like coil packs, which now have to be tied to a specific vehicle, and can be defeated with enough part swaps anyways. Physical security is hard.
• MagicMoonlight 3y ago
  With modern cars you can just drive them off without a key. Absolute geniuses decided to make keys not required and instead just broadcast an unencrypted password 24/7