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Isn’t the concept of „landlocked“ usually referring to your ability to do trade at scale with the rest of the world without being dependent on the goodwill of s
by pintxo 3y ago
Isn’t the concept of „landlocked“ usually referring to your ability to do trade at scale with the rest of the world without being dependent on the goodwill of some other actor? Seems Minnesota would still depend on the goodwill of whoever controls the waterways between the Great Lakes and the Atlantic. So they are still landlocked.
- petre 3y agoBy the same logic, all the Black Sea nations depend on the goodwill of Turkey to let them pass to the Aegean. Are they landlocked? No. Are Azerbaidjan and Turkmenistan landlocked, even tough they have access to the Caspian Sea? Maybe if it's a water body that somehow connects to an ocean, then it's not landlocked.
- jvanderbot 3y agoThe black sea is a sea. Minnesota has no seas. Minnesota has lakes, which are also landlocked, and rivers which lead to the sea, but it abuts no sea.
- petre 3y agoSo, the same as the Caspian (actually better because they connect to the ocean through rivers), only freshwater. By the same logic the Caspian Sea is a saltwater lake.
- jltsiren 3y agoThe legal status of the Caspian Sea is a bit weird. It's something between a lake and a sea. It's not a sea, because Russia wants to maintain control over the system of rivers and canals that connect it to the Black Sea, the Baltic Sea, and the White Sea. And it's not a lake, because it's not fully divided between the bordering countries.
- ninkendo 3y agoMinnesota's lakes are not landlocked. It borders Lake Superior, and shipping from the great lakes into the ocean is very very much a thing.
- jvanderbot 3y agoThey are landlocked by the definition of being a lake and not a sea. Landlocked doesn't mean "does not connect to the sea", because so many lakes and rivers connect to the sea. A lake is a lake by virtue of not being a sea. And a land mass is landlocked by virtue of not having a border that is a seafront.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoAs stated by others, you can get to the Atlantic from Lake Superior. But also, I think of Superior as a freshwater sea so I doubly think Minnesota isn't landlocked
- jvanderbot 3y agoLandlocked means "does not have a border that is a seafront". There's some opinions about it, but that's the definition. And for the curious a sea is a part of the ocean, by some geologic definitions including seabed and salt water, even if it becomes closed off, and a lake never was part of the sea.
- Gibbon1 3y agoI think there is a canal the Soviets built to allow shipping in the Caspian to reach the Black Sea.
- jltsiren 3y agoThat would be the case without any international treaties. Turkey has the physical ability to block the Bosporus and the Dardanneles, but modern Turkey has never had the right to do so. The Treaty of Lausanne (1923) demilitarized the straits and and opened them to any traffic under the supervision of the League of Nations. After the political situation in Europe changed, the Montreux Convention (1936) granted Turkey limited sovereignty over them.
- dmurray 3y agoModern Turkey has the limited right to block passage of warships through the Bosphorus, a right which it is most notably exercising right now, during the war in Ukraine. The Montreux Convention does not allow Turkey absolute discretion here [0], but international law is really about practicalities rather than theory. [0] https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/01/turkey-black-sea-straits-russia-ships-ukraine-war/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/01/turkey-black-sea-strait...
- George83728 3y agoNote that international trade is possible using just the Great Lakes, without needing the St Lawrence River, since the lakes are next to Canada.
- pintxo 3y agoCanada != Rest of the world.