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>I'm also noting that those are already influences on the current formation and existence of the structures around us, so assuming that this is a new idea isn't

>I'm also noting that those are already influences on the current formation and existence of the structures around us, so assuming that this is a new idea isn't helping anyone. [...] I am hearing that you don't seem to be aware of the active and ongoing work to stop corruption and produce better outcomes in the governments and corporations that currently exist. I never said these are new ideas or that there aren't already people working on these problems. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm a bit confused about what our disagreement is. In my first post, all I said was that corporations and power structures aren't inherently bad and that rather than abandoning those concepts, as OP suggests, we can work to improve them. You disagreed with me and made fun of me for being naive. However, what you're saying now sounds like a different version of what I was saying. I don't get why you think I need to make a concrete proposal for this. I'm making a general possibility claim, not a prescription. There are many paths to get there, which probably involve a combination of cultural evolution and the accumulation of knowledge in a wide range of disciplines.

lazide 3y ago
You keep insisting there is a solution here - aka, that this is a solvable problem. Aka, that there is an ‘end’. That is what I am pointing out is fundamentally naive and impossible. There is no possible state here where there is a system that is fundamentally incorruptible and fair, because that isn’t what people want, need, or how people work. Even some options you mentioned (autonomous agents) wouldn’t produce such an outcome, but would just be a tool of despotic behavior (and probably worse than most) as they would be inevitably manipulated or compromised because you don’t seem to understand the nature of the actual problem.

lazide 3y ago

You keep insisting there is a solution here - aka, that this is a solvable problem. Aka, that there is an ‘end’. That is what I am pointing out is fundamentally naive and impossible. There is no possible state here where there is a system that is fundamentally incorruptible and fair, because that isn’t what people want, need, or how people work. Even some options you mentioned (autonomous agents) wouldn’t produce such an outcome, but would just be a tool of despotic behavior (and probably worse than most) as they would be inevitably manipulated or compromised because you don’t seem to understand the nature of the actual problem.