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Do you shoplift? Serious question. Shoplifting is rarely caught, and even more rarely prosecuted in many major cities (e.g. SF). While you probably won't be abl

by smsm42 4y ago

Do you shoplift? Serious question. Shoplifting is rarely caught, and even more rarely prosecuted in many major cities (e.g. SF). While you probably won't be able to steal anything high value, there's a lot of things you'd be able to steal without being caught, and why pay for something if you can have it for free? Most grocery stores are owned by billion-dollar corporations, which don't hesitate to raise prices, engage in tricks like shrinkflation and otherwise make sure they get the best end of the deal. So, if you do not shoplift, why don't you?

pierat 4y ago
Go look up banana trick, aka PLU 4011. This shoplifting joke is thanks to the replacement of humans with these terrible self(aka unpaid) scan machines. Stuff gets put in as bananas, and then weighed. You pay $.29/lb for whatever. And this works beautifully for high price stuff like steaks and the like. Not that I advocate physical theft, but it's definitely a thing. And it's a thing where more people are being screwed. I sure as hell don't get a "you scan it" discount, officially. https://losspreventionmedia.com/the-banana-trick-and-other-acts-of-self-checkout-thievery/ https://losspreventionmedia.com/the-banana-trick-and-other-a... And there's plenty other 'tricks' aka shoplifting that can be done to little risk, primarily due to companies fucking customers over by making us unpaid employees. Excuse me while I cry an alligator tear for them Edit: tough crowd, I see. You all don't get it. Shoplifting has increased by like 600% because companies are getting rid of cashiers. It's corporate greed is what's allowing shoplifting with the thin veneer of 'legitimacy' to happen. (Legitimacy of 'i scanned it but oh well, wrong barcode/plu.) And I find it funny, because corporate greed is triggering revenge shoplifting, for customers being forced to be unpaid employees. And the u-scan-its are basically idiot jackpot machines with anyone with low ethics.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  In Australia the supermarkets use cameras pointed at the scanner and AI to visually match items. When you scan a steak as bananas, it notices something isn't right, puts an image of the item you weighed, and the item you selected on screen and flags a staff member to verify it. As a nice bonus, when you open the selection menu, it has the item you want shown up front so you don't have to search for it most of the time.
  - bexsella 4y ago
    What I like about this system is that every time I've ever encountered this it's always been a laughable error. The last time, I weighed a carrot and it reported that I had actually weighed plums, despite the image clearly being orange and longer than most plums in a longest plum competition.
  - idndoxheo 4y ago
    up next, banana stickers to make the ai do the banana trick for you!
- reustle 4y ago
  > customers being forced to be unpaid employees Do you consider yourself a forced unpaid employee when you go through the checkout screen on Amazon?
  - anotherhue 4y ago
    That poster should look up what groceries stores used to look like...
    - pjscott 4y ago
      The old ones where everything is behind the counter, fetched for you by the checkout clerk, to prevent shoplifting? I've seen the pictures, and I never want to go back to that kind of low-trust society. Please, I'm begging everyone who will listen: do not erode the social norms that let us have nice supermarkets. Or most other nice things.
      - RalfWausE 4y ago
        I am more in the "do everything you can to let the big corporations die" camp... but to each their own
        realjhol 4y ago
        Decent people are in the "stealing is wrong" camp
        tremon 4y ago
        Decent people are also in the "if you want people to do work for you, you need to pay them" camp.
        the_optimist 4y ago
        Why does a “corporation” face your ire? Are unincorporated groups of people somehow superior in your perspective?
- smsm42 4y ago
  Do you understand you correctly that you claim a) it's ok to shoplift because grocery store owners are big corporations b) it's ok to shoplift because they make it too easy to shoplift c) it's ok to shoplift because they don't provide you with shopping experience you consider ideal d) since you see nothing wrong with shoplifting, you personally do it frequently, maybe every time you go to the grocery store?
- splistud 4y ago
  [dead]
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  Hey I tried to add a top root comment going over my disputing of what others are saying. Sister sibling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35777458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35777458
- carlob 4y ago
  > Excuse me while I cry an alligator tear for them I don't think grocery stores are very sad about it either: they probably ran some cost-benefit analysis and decided that the friction from increased shoplifting cost X, the salary savings are Y and Y > X.
hotpotamus 4y ago
I've seen people justify much worse on this site because it pays well.
atlantic 4y ago
> So, if you do not shoplift, why don't you? Have you hears of ethics?
- smsm42 4y ago
  Good idea. I have. But then I wonder why ethics would allow one to do a shit work but not to steal groceries?
skinnymuch 4y ago
The facts and data show how absurdly criminal companies are. They steal 15%-ish from their workers. Corporations complain about shrinkage so much. Shrinkage includes lost items. Shoplifting, and most of all employees stealing. As you noted. Employees steal more than shoplifters. They are exploited and mentally alienated and isolated with the strict way corporations handle low level employees. Some see they are cogs and the moral system is fugazi. All workers and lower class will always have more in relation to one another than the capitalist owners or police there to protect capital, property, power. “Why don’t you shoplift”? I won’t go over what I do in a thread where it can be used against me. OTOH the American system has stolen from me. I pay my taxes so I expect a balance of the government helping me too not just corporations. Unfortunately I never received any help from the state while others in my situation with more privilege were at least able to get the meager $15K a year from disability so I wouldn’t have had to be r-worded etc for a place to sleep where at least my laptop won’t get stolen (while the state didn’t provide any help). I was a child when I was abandoned by the state. At the same time, liberal countries enable and help businesses all the time. Look toward austerity and tax breaks since the 80s thru to Biden and Dems not undoing Trump’s cuts.
hnfong 4y ago
Not to advocate for doing either, just to point out potential flaws in your argument: (1) Value gained Assuming you steal things that aren't of high value, let's say you steal a bag full of groceries at the supermarket, every day, worth $50. Do this for a year, and you'll have stolen < $20k of goods. Assuming an annual salary of $100k, if you slack off 75% of your working hours, you'd gain a "windfall" of ~$75k. Conclusion - the payoff for slacking off is much higher. (2) Risks and adverse outcomes Shoplifting is a crime in most jurisdictions. If you get caught, you'll have to deal with law enforcement, even if you don't get prosecuted in the end. That's generally quite unpleasant. If you are prosecuted and found guilty, it tends to make your life quite a bit harder given that many employers are opinionated about hiring people with a criminal record. Not to mention fines or even prison. If you slack off at work, the worst thing that can happen is a confrontation with your manager, your coworkers look at you funny, and you get fired from the job. This is almost strictly worse than the adverse outcome for shoplifting because if you get convicted of shoplifting there's a good chance you'd lose your job anyway. Conclusion - the risks and adverse outcomes of shoplifting is much worse. So in summary, it can be rational to slack off at work but not shoplift for purely selfish reasons.
- smsm42 4y ago
  > (1) Value gained Does it follow that stealing is only wrong when you steal not enough? > Shoplifting is a crime in most jurisdictions. In most jurisdictions where you earn 6 figures slacking off 75% of your time, actually, it either officially or practically isn't. And if you look as clean and upstanding citizen, the chances of you getting off as "this is just a misunderstanding" are very close to 100%.

by smsm42 4y ago

pierat 4y ago

Go look up banana trick, aka PLU 4011. This shoplifting joke is thanks to the replacement of humans with these terrible self(aka unpaid) scan machines. Stuff gets put in as bananas, and then weighed. You pay $.29/lb for whatever. And this works beautifully for high price stuff like steaks and the like. Not that I advocate physical theft, but it's definitely a thing. And it's a thing where more people are being screwed. I sure as hell don't get a "you scan it" discount, officially. https://losspreventionmedia.com/the-banana-trick-and-other-acts-of-self-checkout-thievery/ https://losspreventionmedia.com/the-banana-trick-and-other-a... And there's plenty other 'tricks' aka shoplifting that can be done to little risk, primarily due to companies fucking customers over by making us unpaid employees. Excuse me while I cry an alligator tear for them Edit: tough crowd, I see. You all don't get it. Shoplifting has increased by like 600% because companies are getting rid of cashiers. It's corporate greed is what's allowing shoplifting with the thin veneer of 'legitimacy' to happen. (Legitimacy of 'i scanned it but oh well, wrong barcode/plu.) And I find it funny, because corporate greed is triggering revenge shoplifting, for customers being forced to be unpaid employees. And the u-scan-its are basically idiot jackpot machines with anyone with low ethics.

Gigachad 4y ago
In Australia the supermarkets use cameras pointed at the scanner and AI to visually match items. When you scan a steak as bananas, it notices something isn't right, puts an image of the item you weighed, and the item you selected on screen and flags a staff member to verify it. As a nice bonus, when you open the selection menu, it has the item you want shown up front so you don't have to search for it most of the time.
- bexsella 4y ago
  What I like about this system is that every time I've ever encountered this it's always been a laughable error. The last time, I weighed a carrot and it reported that I had actually weighed plums, despite the image clearly being orange and longer than most plums in a longest plum competition.
- idndoxheo 4y ago
  up next, banana stickers to make the ai do the banana trick for you!
reustle 4y ago
> customers being forced to be unpaid employees Do you consider yourself a forced unpaid employee when you go through the checkout screen on Amazon?
- anotherhue 4y ago
  That poster should look up what groceries stores used to look like...
  - pjscott 4y ago
    The old ones where everything is behind the counter, fetched for you by the checkout clerk, to prevent shoplifting? I've seen the pictures, and I never want to go back to that kind of low-trust society. Please, I'm begging everyone who will listen: do not erode the social norms that let us have nice supermarkets. Or most other nice things.
    - RalfWausE 4y ago
      I am more in the "do everything you can to let the big corporations die" camp... but to each their own
      - realjhol 4y ago
        Decent people are in the "stealing is wrong" camp
        tremon 4y ago
        Decent people are also in the "if you want people to do work for you, you need to pay them" camp.
      - the_optimist 4y ago
        Why does a “corporation” face your ire? Are unincorporated groups of people somehow superior in your perspective?
smsm42 4y ago
Do you understand you correctly that you claim a) it's ok to shoplift because grocery store owners are big corporations b) it's ok to shoplift because they make it too easy to shoplift c) it's ok to shoplift because they don't provide you with shopping experience you consider ideal d) since you see nothing wrong with shoplifting, you personally do it frequently, maybe every time you go to the grocery store?
splistud 4y ago
[dead]
skinnymuch 4y ago
Hey I tried to add a top root comment going over my disputing of what others are saying. Sister sibling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35777458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35777458
carlob 4y ago
> Excuse me while I cry an alligator tear for them I don't think grocery stores are very sad about it either: they probably ran some cost-benefit analysis and decided that the friction from increased shoplifting cost X, the salary savings are Y and Y > X.

hotpotamus 4y ago

I've seen people justify much worse on this site because it pays well.

atlantic 4y ago

> So, if you do not shoplift, why don't you? Have you hears of ethics?

smsm42 4y ago
Good idea. I have. But then I wonder why ethics would allow one to do a shit work but not to steal groceries?

skinnymuch 4y ago

The facts and data show how absurdly criminal companies are. They steal 15%-ish from their workers. Corporations complain about shrinkage so much. Shrinkage includes lost items. Shoplifting, and most of all employees stealing. As you noted. Employees steal more than shoplifters. They are exploited and mentally alienated and isolated with the strict way corporations handle low level employees. Some see they are cogs and the moral system is fugazi. All workers and lower class will always have more in relation to one another than the capitalist owners or police there to protect capital, property, power. “Why don’t you shoplift”? I won’t go over what I do in a thread where it can be used against me. OTOH the American system has stolen from me. I pay my taxes so I expect a balance of the government helping me too not just corporations. Unfortunately I never received any help from the state while others in my situation with more privilege were at least able to get the meager $15K a year from disability so I wouldn’t have had to be r-worded etc for a place to sleep where at least my laptop won’t get stolen (while the state didn’t provide any help). I was a child when I was abandoned by the state. At the same time, liberal countries enable and help businesses all the time. Look toward austerity and tax breaks since the 80s thru to Biden and Dems not undoing Trump’s cuts.

hnfong 4y ago

Not to advocate for doing either, just to point out potential flaws in your argument: (1) Value gained Assuming you steal things that aren't of high value, let's say you steal a bag full of groceries at the supermarket, every day, worth $50. Do this for a year, and you'll have stolen < $20k of goods. Assuming an annual salary of $100k, if you slack off 75% of your working hours, you'd gain a "windfall" of ~$75k. Conclusion - the payoff for slacking off is much higher. (2) Risks and adverse outcomes Shoplifting is a crime in most jurisdictions. If you get caught, you'll have to deal with law enforcement, even if you don't get prosecuted in the end. That's generally quite unpleasant. If you are prosecuted and found guilty, it tends to make your life quite a bit harder given that many employers are opinionated about hiring people with a criminal record. Not to mention fines or even prison. If you slack off at work, the worst thing that can happen is a confrontation with your manager, your coworkers look at you funny, and you get fired from the job. This is almost strictly worse than the adverse outcome for shoplifting because if you get convicted of shoplifting there's a good chance you'd lose your job anyway. Conclusion - the risks and adverse outcomes of shoplifting is much worse. So in summary, it can be rational to slack off at work but not shoplift for purely selfish reasons.

smsm42 4y ago
> (1) Value gained Does it follow that stealing is only wrong when you steal not enough? > Shoplifting is a crime in most jurisdictions. In most jurisdictions where you earn 6 figures slacking off 75% of your time, actually, it either officially or practically isn't. And if you look as clean and upstanding citizen, the chances of you getting off as "this is just a misunderstanding" are very close to 100%.