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I don't think that sort of strategy can work for everyone because there's two possible negative mental outcomes in there too. First, some people will feel that

I don't think that sort of strategy can work for everyone because there's two possible negative mental outcomes in there too. First, some people will feel that they're "cheating" and don't deserve the paycheck because they're intentionally working less. That feeling can be worse than the benefit of having more time. Second, some people have too much of a sense of personal pride to do that sort of "quiet quitting". This is all ignoring the fact that some people have management who will actually notice quiet quitting. Good on you for having a relationship with work such that "quiet quitting" isn't causing undue mental anguish.

Gigachad 4y ago
I get this feeling. When I get through a day where I’m not blocked on anything I feel satisfied and happy. If I have to wait half the day for someone to reply and I just watch YouTube in that time, it feels bad. Not even that I’m “cheating” but that it was just a waste of time.
- pierat 4y ago
  Ah, when that happens for me, I keep trying to learn new things. I call it professional development. And that's served me well too. Every time I job hop, I already have that "hot new skill in demand" along with 30+% salary increase. And I don't feel bad one bit. I know that every job 'takes advantage' of me and my worth, since by definition, capitalist companies will ALWAYS keep the surplus of my labor. I will never see 100% of my efforts when working for others. Do I have to take part in the system? Well, I like eating and living in a home, and these life things. And those are implicitly threatened and me blamed if I don't. So I play the "game". I certainly wasn't born in a family I didn't have to play that game.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    You're absolutely right, and I think that's the source of the feeling as I know there is always _something_ I could be doing which is more productive than reddit and youtube.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    What’s example of how new skill that gets you the pay bumps? Also yes Ofc with the surplus value of labor it all makes sense.
    - pierat 4y ago
      In chronological order: Linux admin, reverse engineering, VM infrastructure, 3d printing and design, electronics design, radio and signals, docker, K8s, ML, ChatGPT. I find new areas I want to deep dive in. And I do just that. I may not be at full mastery of a thing, but I'm proficient at all of them. I'm also superb at blending them together in unorthodox ways, and that's where you can really shine. Recognizing that you can make your own microwave horns using 3d printing and metallic spray paint is one of those things. Or combining electronics design with ChatGPT allows rapid iterative design. Stuff like that. Also, I tend to stay at a place longer if I have superb management and ample free time. I also balance my 'sanity' as well, as a hard-to-identify money benefit.
      - skinnymuch 4y ago
        > Linux admin, reverse engineering, VM infrastructure, 3d printing and design, electronics design, radio and signals, docker, K8s, ML, ChatGPT. Wow such breath. Chronological order makes this even cooler. I believe I can do some semblance of Linux admin, reverse engineering (depending on what this means), VMs, LLMs. > Or combining electronics design with ChatGPT allows rapid iterative design I haven’t advanced with LLMs enough. This sounds interesting though I don’t understand it :) — Did you get your current job or will get your next one based on ML, or chatgpt? Or is it more to gain these knowledges as they are the clear big new thing that’s actually unique (vs basics like web frameworks)
        pierat 4y ago
        Well, good question. There's a LOT of stuff I'd like to involve in ChatGPT4, pertaining to organization rules. They're so voluminous, that nobody really knows them, especially around "colors of money" and appropriations committees. That sort of thing. I would love to ingest those rules all in a special enclave of ChatGPT4 run inhouse that we can give it whatever. To talk 'around' where I work, it'd be a felony to do that. But in areas where the data is public , I've played a bit and super surprised at the results. As an example, look up a game you like with rules publicly available. Ingest it in as a url, and start asking it questions. I think you'll be significantly surprised. Also, try asking it strategy questions on win-optimization and rules exploitation. All these easily extrapolate to the real world. The real key is to embrace ML in all forms, and use it to leapfrog your skills. And it took can help show you where to focus given your existing skills and abilities. Try telling it about yourself and just ask!
SoftTalker 4y ago
I didn't say I felt good about it. But I don't feel bad about it either. I do what I'm asked to do, just nothing more. As far as pride goes, what I do I do well, or at least to the best of my ability. I don't sabotage anything. Based on reviews of my work and absent any criticism, my employer seems to feel they are getting what they are paying for.
- TheDong 4y ago
  I'm not claiming you are sabotaging things or going out of your way to do poor work, that's a given. However, based on your phrasing, you make it clear you're intentionally putting in less work than you could, and recognize it's less than your employer assumes you are. You didn't say "Even if I tell my boss I finished my work, there aren't more tickets", you phrased it as "do the least amount necessary, and ignore everything else". That last sentiment is the thing I'm saying not everyone can do, the thing that may mentally be worse than the benefit. As above, good on your for having a relationship with work where you can do that. It seems healthy.
- Capricorn2481 4y ago
  You sound like you're burying the leed here a bit. What tech company only has 40 hours a week of measurable work ready? Most companies have a big backlog of work that needs to be done. It sounds like you're not doing all your tasks, you're making it look like you're doing enough tasks to not be fired. What happens if you have a project that takes 40 hours to get done? Do you work 10 hours and stretch it to the whole month?
skinnymuch 4y ago
I believe you’re missing a major point that most of the benefits of the work are going to the companies. Not the workers. No one is choosing to participate in this system freely since we all need money. We should blame capitalism for not incentivizing workers more. Not congratulate some people for being okay with not working hard for a for profit corporation.
- aeternum 4y ago
  The key assumption is that workers produce much of the company's profit. That is increasingly an incorrect assumption. There are now companies with zero employees, and I expect to see many more in the future. If a founder writes a highly profitable SaaS app, then hires an assistant, to help with minor tasks, and a janitor to keep the small office clean, why should their pay be proportional to the success of the SaaS app?

Gigachad 4y ago

I get this feeling. When I get through a day where I’m not blocked on anything I feel satisfied and happy. If I have to wait half the day for someone to reply and I just watch YouTube in that time, it feels bad. Not even that I’m “cheating” but that it was just a waste of time.

pierat 4y ago
Ah, when that happens for me, I keep trying to learn new things. I call it professional development. And that's served me well too. Every time I job hop, I already have that "hot new skill in demand" along with 30+% salary increase. And I don't feel bad one bit. I know that every job 'takes advantage' of me and my worth, since by definition, capitalist companies will ALWAYS keep the surplus of my labor. I will never see 100% of my efforts when working for others. Do I have to take part in the system? Well, I like eating and living in a home, and these life things. And those are implicitly threatened and me blamed if I don't. So I play the "game". I certainly wasn't born in a family I didn't have to play that game.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  You're absolutely right, and I think that's the source of the feeling as I know there is always _something_ I could be doing which is more productive than reddit and youtube.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  What’s example of how new skill that gets you the pay bumps? Also yes Ofc with the surplus value of labor it all makes sense.
  - pierat 4y ago
    In chronological order: Linux admin, reverse engineering, VM infrastructure, 3d printing and design, electronics design, radio and signals, docker, K8s, ML, ChatGPT. I find new areas I want to deep dive in. And I do just that. I may not be at full mastery of a thing, but I'm proficient at all of them. I'm also superb at blending them together in unorthodox ways, and that's where you can really shine. Recognizing that you can make your own microwave horns using 3d printing and metallic spray paint is one of those things. Or combining electronics design with ChatGPT allows rapid iterative design. Stuff like that. Also, I tend to stay at a place longer if I have superb management and ample free time. I also balance my 'sanity' as well, as a hard-to-identify money benefit.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      > Linux admin, reverse engineering, VM infrastructure, 3d printing and design, electronics design, radio and signals, docker, K8s, ML, ChatGPT. Wow such breath. Chronological order makes this even cooler. I believe I can do some semblance of Linux admin, reverse engineering (depending on what this means), VMs, LLMs. > Or combining electronics design with ChatGPT allows rapid iterative design I haven’t advanced with LLMs enough. This sounds interesting though I don’t understand it :) — Did you get your current job or will get your next one based on ML, or chatgpt? Or is it more to gain these knowledges as they are the clear big new thing that’s actually unique (vs basics like web frameworks)
      - pierat 4y ago
        Well, good question. There's a LOT of stuff I'd like to involve in ChatGPT4, pertaining to organization rules. They're so voluminous, that nobody really knows them, especially around "colors of money" and appropriations committees. That sort of thing. I would love to ingest those rules all in a special enclave of ChatGPT4 run inhouse that we can give it whatever. To talk 'around' where I work, it'd be a felony to do that. But in areas where the data is public , I've played a bit and super surprised at the results. As an example, look up a game you like with rules publicly available. Ingest it in as a url, and start asking it questions. I think you'll be significantly surprised. Also, try asking it strategy questions on win-optimization and rules exploitation. All these easily extrapolate to the real world. The real key is to embrace ML in all forms, and use it to leapfrog your skills. And it took can help show you where to focus given your existing skills and abilities. Try telling it about yourself and just ask!

SoftTalker 4y ago

I didn't say I felt good about it. But I don't feel bad about it either. I do what I'm asked to do, just nothing more. As far as pride goes, what I do I do well, or at least to the best of my ability. I don't sabotage anything. Based on reviews of my work and absent any criticism, my employer seems to feel they are getting what they are paying for.

TheDong 4y ago
I'm not claiming you are sabotaging things or going out of your way to do poor work, that's a given. However, based on your phrasing, you make it clear you're intentionally putting in less work than you could, and recognize it's less than your employer assumes you are. You didn't say "Even if I tell my boss I finished my work, there aren't more tickets", you phrased it as "do the least amount necessary, and ignore everything else". That last sentiment is the thing I'm saying not everyone can do, the thing that may mentally be worse than the benefit. As above, good on your for having a relationship with work where you can do that. It seems healthy.
Capricorn2481 4y ago
You sound like you're burying the leed here a bit. What tech company only has 40 hours a week of measurable work ready? Most companies have a big backlog of work that needs to be done. It sounds like you're not doing all your tasks, you're making it look like you're doing enough tasks to not be fired. What happens if you have a project that takes 40 hours to get done? Do you work 10 hours and stretch it to the whole month?

skinnymuch 4y ago

I believe you’re missing a major point that most of the benefits of the work are going to the companies. Not the workers. No one is choosing to participate in this system freely since we all need money. We should blame capitalism for not incentivizing workers more. Not congratulate some people for being okay with not working hard for a for profit corporation.

aeternum 4y ago
The key assumption is that workers produce much of the company's profit. That is increasingly an incorrect assumption. There are now companies with zero employees, and I expect to see many more in the future. If a founder writes a highly profitable SaaS app, then hires an assistant, to help with minor tasks, and a janitor to keep the small office clean, why should their pay be proportional to the success of the SaaS app?