4 ms·

Isn't the problem that if the risk is entirely hypothetical, you can't define a limiting principal to any hypothetical regulation? It reminds me of the Vulnera

by krona 3y ago

Isn't the problem that if the risk is entirely hypothetical, you can't define a limiting principal to any hypothetical regulation? It reminds me of the Vulnerable World Hypothesis - that at any moment someone could invent something so dangerous that it destroys humanity. Given enough time and technological development this outcome becomes inevitable, and ergo we must put brain implants in every child to limit creativity. Do you see the problem?

chefandy 3y ago
a) The US Government uses policy to mitigate hypothetical risk all the time. b) Many of the problems AI may bring about are standard human problems that know how to measure and address, but we likely haven't seen them on this scale. For example, many people reasonably reckon that this new technology will put a lot of white collar workers out of work. That's not some amorphous newfangled philosophical problem-- we can address these problems through policy.
- srslack 3y ago
  >For example, many people reasonably reckon that this new technology will put a lot of white collar workers out of work. That didn't seem to be a problem when it happened to blue collars. In fact, you could say that it was deliberately legislated.
  - chefandy 3y ago
    I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue here. It was, in fact, a huge problem from a humanitarian perspective and the state of rust belt cities is a shining example of what happens when we ignore these forces. We, as a society, hung those people out to dry and the current batch of workers doesn't even have the meager protections afforded to some factory workers by their union affiliation. If it was deliberately legislated for, that's a really great example of what we should not do in the future.
    - srslack 3y ago
      That, if the market deems the value of a white collar to be less than the output of a text predictor, maybe you should "reskill" and "learn to code"? What's wrong with letting the market speak? Since apparently the white collar class celebrates, while chastising and legislating away the jobs of the blue collar class, apparently it's different when the white collar jobs are at risk, and we must not let the market work? Are you ignoring the massive wave of hysteria, including this article, for the last several months? Straight from the 'white collar' class. If the AI is so powerful at whatever bullshit job the white collar worker has, and you want to make white collar workers the glorified elevator attendant, be my guest. But it certainly reveals a glaring hypocrisy, that jobs only matter when they're well-off people's jobs, but fuck the average joe when it comes to their skills and livelihood, they should just "re-skill!"
      - chefandy 3y ago
        > That, if the market deems the value of a white collar to be less than the output of a text predictor, maybe you should "reskill" and "learn to code"? The idea that mid and late career tech, creative, medical, etc. professional will be able to easily "reskill," or that there will be good jobs for them if they manage to, is magical thinking. > What's wrong with letting the market speak? Since apparently the white collar class celebrates, while chastising and legislating away the jobs of the blue collar class, apparently it's different when the white collar jobs are at risk, and we must not let the market work? Are you ignoring the massive wave of hysteria, including this article, for the last several months? Straight from the 'white collar' class. There's a lot going on here but concentrating on your core point: saying "let the market work" without being curious about what the actual human beings involved are actually going to do is nothing more than your thinking money is more important than human life and that people are only as important as their commercial potential. Why beat around the bush? To put it lightly, I disagree. > If the AI is so powerful at whatever bullshit job the white collar worker has, and you want to make white collar workers the glorified elevator attendant, be my guest. But it certainly reveals a glaring hypocrisy, that jobs only matter when they're well-off people's jobs, but fuck the average joe when it comes to their skills and livelihood, they should just "re-skill!" Once again, I'm not really sure where you get this idea that I'm being a hypocrite here considering that I've been very consistent for decades about it being pretty bullshit how our society treats obsoleted workers like used condoms and says "well that's the market!" If you want to go argue that point with someone else who actually has that opinion, feel free. I can tell that we're not going to get anywhere because free market zealots have a philosophically different understanding of human worth than I do.

by krona 3y ago

chefandy 3y ago

a) The US Government uses policy to mitigate hypothetical risk all the time. b) Many of the problems AI may bring about are standard human problems that know how to measure and address, but we likely haven't seen them on this scale. For example, many people reasonably reckon that this new technology will put a lot of white collar workers out of work. That's not some amorphous newfangled philosophical problem-- we can address these problems through policy.

srslack 3y ago
>For example, many people reasonably reckon that this new technology will put a lot of white collar workers out of work. That didn't seem to be a problem when it happened to blue collars. In fact, you could say that it was deliberately legislated.
- chefandy 3y ago
  I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue here. It was, in fact, a huge problem from a humanitarian perspective and the state of rust belt cities is a shining example of what happens when we ignore these forces. We, as a society, hung those people out to dry and the current batch of workers doesn't even have the meager protections afforded to some factory workers by their union affiliation. If it was deliberately legislated for, that's a really great example of what we should not do in the future.
  - srslack 3y ago
    That, if the market deems the value of a white collar to be less than the output of a text predictor, maybe you should "reskill" and "learn to code"? What's wrong with letting the market speak? Since apparently the white collar class celebrates, while chastising and legislating away the jobs of the blue collar class, apparently it's different when the white collar jobs are at risk, and we must not let the market work? Are you ignoring the massive wave of hysteria, including this article, for the last several months? Straight from the 'white collar' class. If the AI is so powerful at whatever bullshit job the white collar worker has, and you want to make white collar workers the glorified elevator attendant, be my guest. But it certainly reveals a glaring hypocrisy, that jobs only matter when they're well-off people's jobs, but fuck the average joe when it comes to their skills and livelihood, they should just "re-skill!"
    - chefandy 3y ago
      > That, if the market deems the value of a white collar to be less than the output of a text predictor, maybe you should "reskill" and "learn to code"? The idea that mid and late career tech, creative, medical, etc. professional will be able to easily "reskill," or that there will be good jobs for them if they manage to, is magical thinking. > What's wrong with letting the market speak? Since apparently the white collar class celebrates, while chastising and legislating away the jobs of the blue collar class, apparently it's different when the white collar jobs are at risk, and we must not let the market work? Are you ignoring the massive wave of hysteria, including this article, for the last several months? Straight from the 'white collar' class. There's a lot going on here but concentrating on your core point: saying "let the market work" without being curious about what the actual human beings involved are actually going to do is nothing more than your thinking money is more important than human life and that people are only as important as their commercial potential. Why beat around the bush? To put it lightly, I disagree. > If the AI is so powerful at whatever bullshit job the white collar worker has, and you want to make white collar workers the glorified elevator attendant, be my guest. But it certainly reveals a glaring hypocrisy, that jobs only matter when they're well-off people's jobs, but fuck the average joe when it comes to their skills and livelihood, they should just "re-skill!" Once again, I'm not really sure where you get this idea that I'm being a hypocrite here considering that I've been very consistent for decades about it being pretty bullshit how our society treats obsoleted workers like used condoms and says "well that's the market!" If you want to go argue that point with someone else who actually has that opinion, feel free. I can tell that we're not going to get anywhere because free market zealots have a philosophically different understanding of human worth than I do.