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I know there was a big scare around PFAS and stick-free pans. That confused me because they are actually on most food-wrapping. Sure, the heat and scraping don’
by bertil 3y ago
I know there was a big scare around PFAS and stick-free pans. That confused me because they are actually on most food-wrapping. Sure, the heat and scraping don’t help the pans, but I can’t imagine that having it on most things we throw in the trash and then burn or put in a landfill helps much.
> The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) currently approves more than 90 PFAS in food container materials ranging from paper cups, parchment paper, and microwavable popcorn bags to fast-food wrappers, pizza boxes, and pet food bags, the Interstate Technology Regulatory Council reported in September 2021.
- ALLTaken 3y agoOh my god, I didn't know it's on most food wrapping. So when I get a coffee to go it's also a PFAS that seals the paper from the fluid?
- Teever 3y agoAnd it's on the inside of those shitty new papers straws. Blows my mind, we've replaced relatively inert pieces of plastic with paper coated in this PFAS stuff and we're acting like it's good for us and the environment. plastic straws were a rounding error on a rounding error of plastic waste.
- timeon 3y agoStraws should be avoided instead of making alternatives.
- belinder 3y agoWhat about metal straws, reusable and dont break
- dymk 3y agoFeels bad on the teeth and is a good way to lobotomize yourself if you trip
- picture 3y agoAnd enormous embodied energy. They are not any better for the environment unless you use a metal straw for like 10 years
- TeMPOraL 3y agoThis is what we get when we make decisions based on panicked masses and noise they generate in the news. That banning plastic straws made zero sense, and was actually counterproductive to humanity's survival in general (distracting from and confusing people about climate change), was obvious to anyone who paused to do some basic math. But people who kept panicking each other about it didn't, and people making the decisions seemingly didn't either (or they did, and went through with it anyway, just to shut the "environmentalists" up). I fear the same will be the case here - I mean, the very term, "forever chemicals", is already a clear giveaway that the topic is discussed and reasoned about in nonsensical categories. Occasional scientific paper that tries to navigate around this term won't help when the overall discussion is consumed by magical thinking.
- Cthulhu_ 3y agoStraws are easy low hanging fruit that make individuals / consumers feel guilty and like they're doing a good thing, it does not have a measurable impact on the environment.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago>plastic straws were a rounding error on a rounding error of plastic waste. Not as a percentage of “outrage”. We know who pushes for this stuff, and for some reason they just keep going with it. I’m pretty convinced things like straw ban are a test to evaluate the demographics of “true believers” out there.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago"No straw" is a much simpler and better solution than "mushy cardboard straw". Ultimately, that's the route Starbucks went -- -- with their plastic cups.
- azinman2 3y agoI don’t think it was ever thought that PFAS would coat alternatives.
- throwawaylinux 3y agoI don't think it was ever thought at all. It was a device to find out who was with them, and to denounce the "anti-science bigots" who were against them.
- azinman2 3y agoWhat device? The ban itself? I seriously doubt it was made as a purity test with no social reward… it’s a pretty easy argument to understand as a stepping stone towards pollution concerns.
- vlovich123 3y agoIt’s like complaining about crumbs on the floor of a house filled with garbage. It’s missing the forest for the trees. Plastic straws have nothing to contribute to the problem that supposedly motivated the reason to ban them
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- cute_boi 3y agoI don't use plastic straw at all and I think it isn't even hard. We can always pour liquid in clean glass if required.
- Cthulhu_ 3y agoI mean that's the obvious answer, but there's a culture (mainly in the US but elsewhere too) that drinks should be taken on the go / while driving instead of just sitting down. I mean straws are a side-effect of an established practice of take-out meals & drinks and avoiding doing (or paying for someone to do) dishes. Make coffee at home. Sit down for a meal. Make food at home. Make time to do these things. Which is easier said than done, granted - they're big cultural and political shifts that require things like affordable housing and living wages. Getting rid of straws is easier than giving people a living wage.
- qwytw 3y agoWhy would anyone ever drinks coffee from straw?
- larrywright 3y agoHot black coffee, no. I suspect they’re referring to coffee-flavored drinks. The kind of thing you see at Starbucks, which are more like milkshakes with a touch of coffee. But even iced coffee is generally drunk through a straw.
- 908B64B197 3y agoPlus, let's be realistic here, it's not like westerners are responsible for plastic in the oceans. More than 80% of all plastic pollution is coming from a handful of rivers in Asia [0]. According to our political elites, getting our children to ingest hormonal disruptors will somehow solve this issue. [0] https://www.statista.com/chart/25005/riverine-plastic-emissions-by-continent/ https://www.statista.com/chart/25005/riverine-plastic-emissi...
- MagicMoonlight 3y agoSeriously? So we’ve replaced aluminium, glass and cardboard with “environmentally friendly” toxic coated paper?
- bertil 3y agoSome companies think it’s cheaper or easier to organize to have disposable wrappers. In the US (and Europe, and likely everywhere, but that thread was about the US), those are allowed to be covered in PFAS. Many of them do; you can tell as they have this waxy surface common on fast food wrappers and disposable cups. Whether PFAS are toxic is debated, mainly because there are thousands, and the few we’ve been using for a while proved to be not great. Manufacturers seem to be playing with how slow toxicity science works by claiming ignorance until experiments and financed and results are reviewed, which can take a lot. I’d call them “likely toxic,” but people with expensive lawyers don’t like that. There can be PFAS on other non-disposable materials: non-stick pans are the big ones. You don’t need them on glassware, but (steel) water bottles and some cans (historically aluminum, but many are thin steel now) typically have a coating that could be PFAS. It depends on the manufacturer. All those precautions out of the way… *Yes.* Whenever possible, avoid disposable wrappers. Glass is great. Bottles in steel with no ultraviolet, excessive heat, or scratches are less likely to leak the coating either. Most coffee chains now offer permanent cups; some even take cents off to encourage people to use them. I have yet to see fast-food chains do the same (or convince the local one to let me use my own glass). I don’t foresee an easy solution to wrap burgers or fries. This being HN: if you have an idea, please develop it. I have invested (Angel round) in several (well, three) efforts in that direction. All three have fairly low-tech containers (glass, steel, QR code), local collection points, and non-trivial software to know who holds what. If you want to hit the big boys like McDonald’s, ask friends at Uber Eats to introduce you to people who work with chain restaurants. They will explain better than I can why it’s hard.