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I've been hearing about the dangers of Teflon for at least a quarter century. Lawsuits were being settled in the 9-figure range as far back as 2001 - they kept

I've been hearing about the dangers of Teflon for at least a quarter century. Lawsuits were being settled in the 9-figure range as far back as 2001 - they kept making it, and actively covered up what they knew, tobacco firm style. I haven't watched it yet, but 'The Devil We Know' apparently goes in depth on this, with very highly rated reviews. I don't need to be that angry right now though; I know enough about Du Pont for "strong opinions" as it is.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
I certainly wouldn't have bought that bottle of Scotchguard for my shoes in the late 2000s if it had had a warning label on it.
- Axien 4y ago
  Or scotchguard my entire car.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    Or outdoor textiles, or toilet paper, or paper food boxes, or furniture with stain repelents, or cosmetics, or school uniforms, or breast milk, or microwave popcorn bags, or carpet cleaners, or candy wrappers, or pizza boxes, or cattle, or agricultural fields and products, or houshold dust, or water, or firefighting foams, or dental floss, or air ... better to stay away from it all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per-_and_polyfluoroalkyl_substances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per-_and_polyfluoroalkyl_subst... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - jeff_carr 4y ago
      Also every stain resistant material. Clothes, carpet, etc. I'm not sure, but I suspect even bubbles. Like when we were kids.
stephen_g 4y ago
Teflon itself is safe to use as long as you don’t heat it too much (stay well clear of 260°C/500°F) - it’s technically a PFAS but polymerised into to molecules that have a high molecular weight so have no biological activity and it is chemically inert. It’s the shorter chain PFAS chemicals used in the production process that has caused the huge problems - especially to workers and to people living near the plants (due to groundwater contamination and other environmental release of PFAS)
- b112 4y ago
  Teflon itself is safe to use as long as you don’t heat it too much The problem is, people make mistakes. All it takes is a crying child, a burned pot, a mistake in cooking (not thinking about it), and you've hit the wrong temp. And then the pan is dangerous, leeching, trouble. The whole thought about the approval was "Well, people can be trusted to not let a pot get too hot! And to know 100% to throw it away if it does!". Right. Trusted. In a country with warning labels like 'coffee is hot' and 'water is wet'. Edit: my point is, the above means "teflon isn't safe for home use". Engineers know, also, to have safety tolerances. For something like this, I'd expect the 'danger zone' to be 2x the max possible heat a consumer could apply by accident. As burners can get crazy hot, that probably means I'd call teflon unsafe, unless it broke down at 2000F. This is how we can approve things safe or not. Not "trust people will constantly monitor how hot their pan got". Just as an aside, I was at a hotel the other day, and someone was trying to put buttered toast in the hotel toaster!
  - akiselev 4y ago
    > As burners can get crazy hot, that probably means I'd call teflon unsafe, unless it broke down at 2000F. That seems a bit... unrealistic. Not even cast iron is usable at 2000F.
    - CapstanRoller 4y ago
      The only danger from 2000F iron is that it's hot, and that is very temporary.
    - 4y ago
clnq 4y ago
When you're in the mood for some anger towards DuPont, check out "Dark Waters" (2019) too. The cinematography, acting, and pacing are great — my favourite DuPont rager so far.
- Maursault 4y ago
  A Civil Action, 1998, is not directly about DuPont, though DuPont did manufacture the same chemical that the film concerns itself with, trichloroethylene. Duvall was nominated for best supporting actor for his role in this, and the film was nominated for best cinematography.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago

I certainly wouldn't have bought that bottle of Scotchguard for my shoes in the late 2000s if it had had a warning label on it.

Axien 4y ago
Or scotchguard my entire car.
- myshpa 4y ago
  Or outdoor textiles, or toilet paper, or paper food boxes, or furniture with stain repelents, or cosmetics, or school uniforms, or breast milk, or microwave popcorn bags, or carpet cleaners, or candy wrappers, or pizza boxes, or cattle, or agricultural fields and products, or houshold dust, or water, or firefighting foams, or dental floss, or air ... better to stay away from it all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per-_and_polyfluoroalkyl_substances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per-_and_polyfluoroalkyl_subst... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jeff_carr 4y ago
    Also every stain resistant material. Clothes, carpet, etc. I'm not sure, but I suspect even bubbles. Like when we were kids.

stephen_g 4y ago

Teflon itself is safe to use as long as you don’t heat it too much (stay well clear of 260°C/500°F) - it’s technically a PFAS but polymerised into to molecules that have a high molecular weight so have no biological activity and it is chemically inert. It’s the shorter chain PFAS chemicals used in the production process that has caused the huge problems - especially to workers and to people living near the plants (due to groundwater contamination and other environmental release of PFAS)

b112 4y ago
Teflon itself is safe to use as long as you don’t heat it too much The problem is, people make mistakes. All it takes is a crying child, a burned pot, a mistake in cooking (not thinking about it), and you've hit the wrong temp. And then the pan is dangerous, leeching, trouble. The whole thought about the approval was "Well, people can be trusted to not let a pot get too hot! And to know 100% to throw it away if it does!". Right. Trusted. In a country with warning labels like 'coffee is hot' and 'water is wet'. Edit: my point is, the above means "teflon isn't safe for home use". Engineers know, also, to have safety tolerances. For something like this, I'd expect the 'danger zone' to be 2x the max possible heat a consumer could apply by accident. As burners can get crazy hot, that probably means I'd call teflon unsafe, unless it broke down at 2000F. This is how we can approve things safe or not. Not "trust people will constantly monitor how hot their pan got". Just as an aside, I was at a hotel the other day, and someone was trying to put buttered toast in the hotel toaster!
- akiselev 4y ago
  > As burners can get crazy hot, that probably means I'd call teflon unsafe, unless it broke down at 2000F. That seems a bit... unrealistic. Not even cast iron is usable at 2000F.
  - CapstanRoller 4y ago
    The only danger from 2000F iron is that it's hot, and that is very temporary.
  - 4y ago

clnq 4y ago

When you're in the mood for some anger towards DuPont, check out "Dark Waters" (2019) too. The cinematography, acting, and pacing are great — my favourite DuPont rager so far.

Maursault 4y ago
A Civil Action, 1998, is not directly about DuPont, though DuPont did manufacture the same chemical that the film concerns itself with, trichloroethylene. Duvall was nominated for best supporting actor for his role in this, and the film was nominated for best cinematography.