7 ms·

Necrobrands – Digital End-Stage Capitalism

50 points by TrevTwells 3y ago

rektide 3y ago
Golembrands. The flesh may move but there is no soul. Cute article Trev.
unusualmonkey 3y ago
The idea of a 'brand' constantly generating content and offering services without human involvement is interesting - kind of an AI powered vending machine. However the article does little to explore this concept, and makes unconvincing and contradictory arguments re sustainability.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
10u152 3y ago
AI generated T-Shirt images? Forget all of that. I can't even find a simple plain cotton tee that is well made and reasonably priced.
- com 3y ago
  I like AS Colour - a company from New Zealand - who make great, reasonably priced tees. Available in the US too.
- rs999gti 3y ago
  Choose the higher quality options from the big brands, such of Fruit of the Loom, Hanes, Gildan, etc., and not the 12 shirts for 12 USD packs. The premium lines from these brands are the 1-3 for 20-35 USD, which have sweat wicking tech, cooling tech, brushed premium cotton, double stitching, etc. Avoid the pop up ads for tees on social media, none of them can match the quality of the big brands without paying 2-3X the cost
  - 10u152 3y ago
    I've paid up to $50 for a single T and been disappointed. Price is no guarantee of quality. Sweat wicking etc is fine for workout shirts but not for daily wear, they must be 100% cotton.
Michelangelo11 3y ago
This doesn't make sense to me on the most basic level. All the services mentioned in the article cost money, so somebody has to keep paying them -- and if they're being paid for by the company's revenue, out of its bank account, then the company certainly isn't dissolved. It's actually very, very efficiently automated (I think that level of automation, ~100%, is unachievable for a business like this, but that's by the by). Really, this is a very fascinating article. At first sight it holds up and makes surface-level sense, but the moment you start scratching the surface, you see there's no substance and the article's premises and ideas correspond in no way to reality. Just like a lot of GPT output, in other words.
- nielsbot 3y ago
  It's possible the service payments were set up from the same account that takes customer payments... and then it could run for a while anyway.
  - Michelangelo11 3y ago
    Yes, and then it's just very efficiently automated (to an implausible degree, even) and certainly not dead, as I said in my post.
- gumby 3y ago
  > I think that level of automation, ~100%, is unachievable for a business like this, but that's by the by With a little flexibility in your definition, I think you could completely automate it. 1 - Have a cron job that collects trends (maybe a crawler, but perhaps you could get that info via APIs of some social media through your advertising account). 2 - generate the T shirt / whatever design using a generative package 3 - generate and place ads on various sites based on their current memes (mapping determined in step 1) 4 - take orders and send them to a print on demand shirt fulfillment service. This makes your company 100% automated, though some people are required at the fulfillment and delivery steps of course — but your payroll is nil. This reminds me of the stories that appear from time to time in which some old person in Europe is discovered to have died in their apartment but are undiscovered for years because the pension is auto deposited, the utilities are autodebited, and what little mail arrives just comes in through the slot in the door and piles up on the floor. This automated company could almost also survive its owner’s death, except for the tax filings.
barumrho 3y ago
Well, if it's profitable, someone will want to claim it. If it's not, then it will get shutdown due to some unpaid bills. (Compute, electricity, connectivity, etc.) Maybe possible if it's running as a truly decentralized algorithm running on blockchain with profits sustaining itself. (Not currently possible as far as I am aware.)
asow92 3y ago
This article was an intriguing read, but I left unconvinced of its conclusion with a general feeling of "who cares?"
burglins 3y ago
Kinda offtopic: I really like the main idea of this article, but the contents are really generic and feel like they were generated from the heading alone. Generic call to AI regulation and vague statements like "undermine efforts to promote responsible consumption" - like what does that even mean? Like the whole article is basically filler... I dunno...
- TrevTwells 3y ago
  The main idea behind the sustainability concept is that when left unchecked AI can and will fill not just our digital world, but our physical world with junk. Especially when the inevitable use of AI product generation comes about. I did think about generating the article, but decided against it.
  - UncleEntity 3y ago
    But how can it fill the physical world if there are no consumers buying the products? Presumably this is pre-post end stage capitalism and the AI politburo isn’t in charge of who gets the meme T-shirt allocations so someone has to actually decide the shirt has more value to them than whatever is being charged. Absent this the company is just making ideas that nobody wants and will eventually run out of money to pay the power bill for the AI. So, to summarize, the company is either providing value to customers or will go bankrupt like every other business in the history of the world.
noAnswer 3y ago
1. "Ghost in the Shell" has this topic IIRC multiple times. AI keeps going while its creator is already dead. 2. "Keep Calm and Rape a Lot" Auto generated T-Shirts are a thing since a long time. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/02/amazon-withdraws-rape-slogan-shirt https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/02/amazon-wi...
- nextaccountic 3y ago
  > 1. "Ghost in the Shell" has this topic IIRC multiple times. AI keeps going while its creator is already dead. Also the premise of AI hotels in Altered Carbon
jareklupinski 3y ago
i love a reason to bring up this short on what will happen when we just cede everything to a power that makes decisions for us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjJmTeBSEzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjJmTeBSEzU - "LAST DAY OF WAR" - by Dima Fedotov | TheCGBros
echelon 3y ago
[flagged]
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  That's a pretty rosy hot-take when there are tens of thousands of people in the US sleeping on sidewalks, let alone other pesky externalities like climate change, microplastic pollution, endocrine disruptors and on and on. Of course it's tautologically true that capitalism has gotten us all the amazing stuff we have, but the collateral damage has been significant; that alone suggests it could be done better.
  - thereddaikon 3y ago
    The onus is on the critic to provide a better alternative. But all I ever see anyone propose is the same tired marxism that has been proven time and time again to be even worse. Its a lazy argument. Perhaps we need to go back to first principles. Both capitalism and socialism are materialist. This is probably the wrong framework to structure society. It made sense when we became industrial. But we are now post industrial and at least in the global north rapidly approaching the possibility of post scarcity.
  - Gamemaster1379 3y ago
    > thousands of people in the US sleeping on sidewalks Somehow this is capitalism's fault and I don't understand how. I have been touring Europe over the past month and throughout the many major cities and small towns I have been in, the amount of homeless is exponentially less. Does Europe not practice capitalism? Or is it possible that our government and culture is to blame, and not our economic system?
    - the_only_law 3y ago
      > Does Europe not practice capitalism? Depends on if you subscribe to the brain dead “socialism is when the government does stuff”
ChancyChance 3y ago
Brands that never die are called necrobrands? Necro means of death. More like immortal brands.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  They've probably attempted a portmanteau with "necromancy" but that sort of leaves out an essential connotation, doesn't it.
  - gilmore606 3y ago
    In old usenet/forum-speak, to "necro" a thread meant to bring it back from the dead, they're probably playing off this meaning.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  A vampire is both "immortal" and "the living dead". Immortality means that they don't grow old. If the hypothetical necrobrands never stagnate in their output, they can't grow old and thus uncompetitive. A "vampire brand" sounds even more appropriate considering hypothetically it feeds on current trends and turns them to its advantage. Then again, there's plenty of misnomers in the English language.
  - cuteboy19 3y ago
    There is of course the word zombie
    - hammyhavoc 3y ago
      Zombies are visibly doing worse and not operating all that well. Vampires? They're slick, sexy killers and manipulators that people need to invite across their threshold.
academo 3y ago
I wonder if the author of this story ever read autofac by Phillips K
ggillas 3y ago
Flipping this the other direction, I'm intrigued by the idea of a perpetual purpose company, even a charity, that could be set up and endowed to keep to it goal even after the founders have departed (maintaining open source libraries, providing grants, etc.)

50 points by TrevTwells 3y ago

Golembrands. The flesh may move but there is no soul. Cute article Trev.

The idea of a 'brand' constantly generating content and offering services without human involvement is interesting - kind of an AI powered vending machine. However the article does little to explore this concept, and makes unconvincing and contradictory arguments re sustainability.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

10u152 3y ago

AI generated T-Shirt images? Forget all of that. I can't even find a simple plain cotton tee that is well made and reasonably priced.

com 3y ago
I like AS Colour - a company from New Zealand - who make great, reasonably priced tees. Available in the US too.
rs999gti 3y ago
Choose the higher quality options from the big brands, such of Fruit of the Loom, Hanes, Gildan, etc., and not the 12 shirts for 12 USD packs. The premium lines from these brands are the 1-3 for 20-35 USD, which have sweat wicking tech, cooling tech, brushed premium cotton, double stitching, etc. Avoid the pop up ads for tees on social media, none of them can match the quality of the big brands without paying 2-3X the cost
- 10u152 3y ago
  I've paid up to $50 for a single T and been disappointed. Price is no guarantee of quality. Sweat wicking etc is fine for workout shirts but not for daily wear, they must be 100% cotton.

Michelangelo11 3y ago

This doesn't make sense to me on the most basic level. All the services mentioned in the article cost money, so somebody has to keep paying them -- and if they're being paid for by the company's revenue, out of its bank account, then the company certainly isn't dissolved. It's actually very, very efficiently automated (I think that level of automation, ~100%, is unachievable for a business like this, but that's by the by). Really, this is a very fascinating article. At first sight it holds up and makes surface-level sense, but the moment you start scratching the surface, you see there's no substance and the article's premises and ideas correspond in no way to reality. Just like a lot of GPT output, in other words.

nielsbot 3y ago
It's possible the service payments were set up from the same account that takes customer payments... and then it could run for a while anyway.
- Michelangelo11 3y ago
  Yes, and then it's just very efficiently automated (to an implausible degree, even) and certainly not dead, as I said in my post.
gumby 3y ago
> I think that level of automation, ~100%, is unachievable for a business like this, but that's by the by With a little flexibility in your definition, I think you could completely automate it. 1 - Have a cron job that collects trends (maybe a crawler, but perhaps you could get that info via APIs of some social media through your advertising account). 2 - generate the T shirt / whatever design using a generative package 3 - generate and place ads on various sites based on their current memes (mapping determined in step 1) 4 - take orders and send them to a print on demand shirt fulfillment service. This makes your company 100% automated, though some people are required at the fulfillment and delivery steps of course — but your payroll is nil. This reminds me of the stories that appear from time to time in which some old person in Europe is discovered to have died in their apartment but are undiscovered for years because the pension is auto deposited, the utilities are autodebited, and what little mail arrives just comes in through the slot in the door and piles up on the floor. This automated company could almost also survive its owner’s death, except for the tax filings.

barumrho 3y ago

Well, if it's profitable, someone will want to claim it. If it's not, then it will get shutdown due to some unpaid bills. (Compute, electricity, connectivity, etc.) Maybe possible if it's running as a truly decentralized algorithm running on blockchain with profits sustaining itself. (Not currently possible as far as I am aware.)

asow92 3y ago

This article was an intriguing read, but I left unconvinced of its conclusion with a general feeling of "who cares?"

burglins 3y ago

Kinda offtopic: I really like the main idea of this article, but the contents are really generic and feel like they were generated from the heading alone. Generic call to AI regulation and vague statements like "undermine efforts to promote responsible consumption" - like what does that even mean? Like the whole article is basically filler... I dunno...

TrevTwells 3y ago
The main idea behind the sustainability concept is that when left unchecked AI can and will fill not just our digital world, but our physical world with junk. Especially when the inevitable use of AI product generation comes about. I did think about generating the article, but decided against it.
- UncleEntity 3y ago
  But how can it fill the physical world if there are no consumers buying the products? Presumably this is pre-post end stage capitalism and the AI politburo isn’t in charge of who gets the meme T-shirt allocations so someone has to actually decide the shirt has more value to them than whatever is being charged. Absent this the company is just making ideas that nobody wants and will eventually run out of money to pay the power bill for the AI. So, to summarize, the company is either providing value to customers or will go bankrupt like every other business in the history of the world.

noAnswer 3y ago

1. "Ghost in the Shell" has this topic IIRC multiple times. AI keeps going while its creator is already dead. 2. "Keep Calm and Rape a Lot" Auto generated T-Shirts are a thing since a long time. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/02/amazon-withdraws-rape-slogan-shirt https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/02/amazon-wi...

nextaccountic 3y ago
> 1. "Ghost in the Shell" has this topic IIRC multiple times. AI keeps going while its creator is already dead. Also the premise of AI hotels in Altered Carbon

jareklupinski 3y ago

i love a reason to bring up this short on what will happen when we just cede everything to a power that makes decisions for us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjJmTeBSEzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjJmTeBSEzU - "LAST DAY OF WAR" - by Dima Fedotov | TheCGBros

echelon 3y ago

[flagged]

blacksmith_tb 3y ago
That's a pretty rosy hot-take when there are tens of thousands of people in the US sleeping on sidewalks, let alone other pesky externalities like climate change, microplastic pollution, endocrine disruptors and on and on. Of course it's tautologically true that capitalism has gotten us all the amazing stuff we have, but the collateral damage has been significant; that alone suggests it could be done better.
- thereddaikon 3y ago
  The onus is on the critic to provide a better alternative. But all I ever see anyone propose is the same tired marxism that has been proven time and time again to be even worse. Its a lazy argument. Perhaps we need to go back to first principles. Both capitalism and socialism are materialist. This is probably the wrong framework to structure society. It made sense when we became industrial. But we are now post industrial and at least in the global north rapidly approaching the possibility of post scarcity.
- Gamemaster1379 3y ago
  > thousands of people in the US sleeping on sidewalks Somehow this is capitalism's fault and I don't understand how. I have been touring Europe over the past month and throughout the many major cities and small towns I have been in, the amount of homeless is exponentially less. Does Europe not practice capitalism? Or is it possible that our government and culture is to blame, and not our economic system?
  - the_only_law 3y ago
    > Does Europe not practice capitalism? Depends on if you subscribe to the brain dead “socialism is when the government does stuff”

ChancyChance 3y ago

Brands that never die are called necrobrands? Necro means of death. More like immortal brands.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
They've probably attempted a portmanteau with "necromancy" but that sort of leaves out an essential connotation, doesn't it.
- gilmore606 3y ago
  In old usenet/forum-speak, to "necro" a thread meant to bring it back from the dead, they're probably playing off this meaning.
hammyhavoc 3y ago
A vampire is both "immortal" and "the living dead". Immortality means that they don't grow old. If the hypothetical necrobrands never stagnate in their output, they can't grow old and thus uncompetitive. A "vampire brand" sounds even more appropriate considering hypothetically it feeds on current trends and turns them to its advantage. Then again, there's plenty of misnomers in the English language.
- cuteboy19 3y ago
  There is of course the word zombie
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Zombies are visibly doing worse and not operating all that well. Vampires? They're slick, sexy killers and manipulators that people need to invite across their threshold.

academo 3y ago

I wonder if the author of this story ever read autofac by Phillips K

ggillas 3y ago

Flipping this the other direction, I'm intrigued by the idea of a perpetual purpose company, even a charity, that could be set up and endowed to keep to it goal even after the founders have departed (maintaining open source libraries, providing grants, etc.)